Re: Powell OUT : Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:36 pm  

Gazwire wrote:

Firstly, don't attempt to patronise me - rather pathetic.

When making the comparison between Price and Powell's tenure, to me, you've insinuated that Price is the better coach/your preferred coach because the players put in more effort:

Why use Price as a comparison to back up your argument against Powell if you didn't rate him?

Just to clarify, are you saying Powell is better or worse than Price?

If Price is better, based on the efforts players were putting in, we may as well have employed Mr Motivator given Price's tactical nouse.










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Chill out and have a beer. Our opinions are probably not a million miles apart.

And to be clear, what I’m saying is the players played for Price, but aren’t playing for Powell. Rightly or wrongly.

I am of the opinion that tactically Price was left wanting and there were too many games when Price was obsessed with ‘the grind’ when often it was completely unnecessary to approach a game with those tactics. Of course, sometimes it was the right plan, and it worked, but for the vast majority of the time, it wasn’t, and if didn’t.

With DP, I’m not 100% sure what his approach, strategy or tactics are to be honest, with Price, at least that element was clear.

What I see at the moment is a group of players that in the main, don’t look engaged with what DP is asking of them, be that though his tactics, or lack of empathy in his day to day approach, I’m not sure.

What you will find is in that in any underperforming organisation you’ll find low sustainable engagement, and from there you will have to look at the leader.

Re: Powell OUT : Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:38 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

. We look like we are rebuilding the squad by moving players out and bringing lesser ones in.

Who's lesser than who in the recent changes?

Re: Powell OUT : Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:56 pm  

Tony Smith won a Challenge Cup when he took over mid way through 2009, and took us from 10th to 3rd in one season. Price took over in 2018 taking us from 9th to 4th in one season with a Grand Final and Challenge Cup appearance.

That is what our last two coaches have managed to do in one season. Someone mentioned before about Castleford having a lower budget, well, Daryl Powell inherited a team with a bigger budget and a better squad than Castleford and we are currently 9th.

The last two coaches have made improvements and made us competitive in a single season. No excuse for Daryl Powell if he's such an attacking genius.

Re: Powell OUT : Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:08 pm  

Let’s not pretend like some of these players aren’t sh!te and haven’t been sh!te for a few years now. Powell has come in and tried to change the culturen and has demanded more and these players just aren’t arsed because they’ve got away with so little for so long. He’s made 2 mistakes since coming in I feel, that’s bringing the Cas lads with him and giving Ratchford a new deal. We could have Craig Bellamy as coach and some of these lot still wouldn’t put a tackle in.

Re: Powell OUT : Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:23 pm  

RLIMR wrote:

Chill out and have a beer. Our opinions are probably not a million miles apart.

I'm perfectly chilled thank you. I suggest you use debate to prove a point, rather than accuse someone of illiteracy.

RLIMR wrote:

And to be clear, what I’m saying is the players played for Price, but aren’t playing for Powell. Rightly or wrongly.

They've not been performing overall for Powell so far because he has kicked half the side out. They were being paid a king's ransom for getting knocked out at the first round, 3 years in a row, under Price's coaching and Powell has seen the wood for the trees.

RLIMR wrote:

With DP, I’m not 100% sure what his approach, strategy or tactics are to be honest, with Price, at least that element was clear.

There's been huge upheaval with the team changing week upon week (this is the nature of a huge upheaval). Combine this with new tactics and combinations and its bound to be messy. You're right about Price's tactics, that element was clear: there weren't any attacking ones.

RLIMR wrote:

What I see at the moment is a group of players that in the main, don’t look engaged with what DP is asking of them, be that though his tactics, or lack of empathy in his day to day approach, I’m not sure.

Up until Catalans yes. Different v Cats - much better. Today dissapointing first half but better second half. At least that second half has been better than most games prior to Cats. This season has certainly brought disengagement between Powell and the players, but he's been tasked with a fundamental reset because, as our record shows, we still haven't won the GF despite spending more than anyone else for probably c.20 years.

RLIMR wrote:

What you will find is in that in any underperforming organisation you’ll find low sustainable engagement, and from there you will have to look at the leader.

With Price's sustainable engagement over 4 years (the players seemed happy), was the organisation performing to expectations? This organisation has been, arguably, underperforming for nearly 20 years, bar the early Smith years. The owners and many fans have recognised that we need to look at succesful clubs and learn. This means we need to radically change the way things have been done and it's needed a coach to come in and radically re-structure things to match our adversaries more. This isn't a half season project. We have to be patient and understanding if we recognise that this overhaul is needed.

Re: Powell OUT : Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:28 pm  

Lord Tony Smith wrote:

Let’s not pretend like some of these players aren’t sh!te and haven’t been sh!te for a few years now. Powell has come in and tried to change the culturen and has demanded more and these players just aren’t arsed because they’ve got away with so little for so long. He’s made 2 mistakes since coming in I feel, that’s bringing the Cas lads with him and giving Ratchford a new deal. We could have Craig Bellamy as coach and some of these lot still wouldn’t put a tackle in.

There’s a bit to unpick here.

The players aren’t that bad. They’re not 9th, 10th in the league standard. Otherwise, this wouldn’t be a story. The calibre of the group, both at the start and after significant turnover is better than has been delivered. Anyone with a brain in their head would admit that.

A change of culture is good, it’s a good thing for a squad assembled by the man leading that change. 16 of them have been signed or have had new deals. 14 of todays 17. If you have to change the culture of the people that you’re hiring, why are you hiring them?

Brining the Cas lads, Holmes hasn’t worked out. That is acknowledged by Powell by moving him from his position to the middle. If he was any good, he would have took Currie’s spot. Matautia, I’m not sure on. He’s not great, but he has utility value and we needed a centre. Doubt he’s on big money, so I’m fine with it. He’s Gelling without the baggage.

Finally, Bellamy would get a tune out of this team. That’s obvious. He has turned average pro’s into superstars. Its about how much the players believe you, trust you and prepare for you. I bet everyone has had a manager who has said the right things, and you know they are right, but you still think that they are an idiot so the words don’t land right.

Re: Powell OUT : Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:30 pm  

KineticRR wrote:

Tony Smith won a Challenge Cup when he took over mid way through 2009, and took us from 10th to 3rd in one season. Price took over in 2018 taking us from 9th to 4th in one season with a Grand Final and Challenge Cup appearance.

That is what our last two coaches have managed to do in one season. Someone mentioned before about Castleford having a lower budget, well, Daryl Powell inherited a team with a bigger budget and a better squad than Castleford and we are currently 9th.

The last two coaches have made improvements and made us competitive in a single season. No excuse for Daryl Powell if he's such an attacking genius.

BUT HES HAVING TO DO A TOTAL RESTRUCTURE. IF WE DONT, ITS ANOTHER 20 YEARS OF THE SAME 'IT'LL BE OUR YEAR'.

Smith hardly moved anyone on and neither did Price in comparison to Powell. These underperforming players - many of them are nearing retirement so he may as well start afresh.

Aside from the player overhaul, Powell is tasked with teaching these players how to attack again after 4 years under Price. I cannot believe, given all these circumstances, that people are expecting Powell to have things in a good place halfway through a season, especially as Powell is having to shift on and retrain a load of players stuck in a clique of complacency.

Even Smith didn't win us a GF either, so we need to try something different.

Re: Powell OUT : Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:32 pm  

Gazwire wrote:

BUT HES HAVING TO DO A TOTAL RESTRUCTURE. IF WE DONT, ITS ANOTHER 20 YEARS OF THE SAME 'IT'LL BE OUR YEAR'.

Smith hardly moved anyone on and neither did Price in comparison to Powell. These underperforming players - many of them are nearing retirement so he may as well start afresh.

Can he not just inspire, teach, train and develop the playing roster that we have, especially the ones that have delivered for us? Does it have to be baby and bath water?

After all, he was appointed because he could improve players wasn’t he

Re: Powell OUT : Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:38 pm  

Gazwire wrote:

BUT HES HAVING TO DO A TOTAL RESTRUCTURE. IF WE DONT, ITS ANOTHER 20 YEARS OF THE SAME 'IT'LL BE OUR YEAR'.

Smith hardly moved anyone on and neither did Price in comparison to Powell. These underperforming players - many of them are nearing retirement so he may as well start afresh.

Even Smith didn't win us a GF either, so we need to try something different.

I agree with you, but all of the (necessary) upheaval is pointless without players who buy in to the coach. Last week's performance (and the 2nd half today to be fair) buys more time for me because we know there is ability in there and they can perform at times, I'm nervous about relegation still though toulouse are on better form than us.

Re: Powell OUT : Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:42 pm  

Barbed Wire wrote:

Can he not just inspire, teach, train and develop the playing roster that we have, especially the ones that have delivered for us? Does it have to be baby and bath water?

After all, he was appointed because he could improve players wasn’t he

He may have tried, we don't know, but 7/8 odd years of underperformance under 3 different coaches now, tells me he's decided it's best to get rid. Meaning he's having to make these huge changes. How many coaches shall we try to get a tune out of these players?