Re: Royce Gone !! : Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:19 am  

Mugwump wrote:

You keep saying there were props available. So far you haven't listed a single viable candidate. And I shall restate an obvious point - a club's "best player" is BY DEFINITION extraordinarily difficult to replace. There are only two or three props in the world capable of doing Graham's job. NONE were available.

You describe Laffranchi as "average". Yet he has played for both NSW and Australia and has consistently been regarded as one of the top back row forwards in the NRL. I mean, you're making yourself look utterly stupid.

Did you miss the bit about saving players for the playoffs?

Were you complaining when David Fairleigh was picked at prop for Saints? And since when was it unusual for a back row to gravitate toward the front? Since when was it unusual for a full-back to play in the halves? A full-back who, I might add, has represented New Zealand in the halves.

How many good props have Saints produced in the last twenty five years? When I said "good" I mean a player with the wherewithal to cement a long-term career at the club (say five or six years in the first team).

Like I said, ten NRL props switched clubs last year.

I ain't listed any?

Blair, Gibbs, kite, king, hill, dudson, Luke bailey, griffin along with tye other NRL props that was available.

We've got clough, laffranchci, TP all converted from the backrow with only perry and LMS as props by trade.

Re: Royce Gone !! : Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:42 am  

Mugwump wrote:

You keep saying there were props available. So far you haven't listed a single viable candidate. And I shall restate an obvious point - a club's "best player" is BY DEFINITION extraordinarily difficult to replace. There are only two or three props in the world capable of doing Graham's job. NONE were available.

You describe Laffranchi as "average". Yet he has played for both NSW and Australia and has consistently been regarded as one of the top back row forwards in the NRL. I mean, you're making yourself look utterly stupid.

Did you miss the bit about saving players for the playoffs?

Were you complaining when David
Fairleigh was picked at prop for Saints? And since when was it unusual for a back row to gravitate toward the front? Since when was it unusual for a full-back to play in the halves? A full-back who, I might add, has represented New Zealand in the halves.

How many good props have Saints produced in the last twenty five years? When I said "good" I mean a player with the wherewithal to cement a long-term career at the club (say five or six years in the first team).

Also, Leeds, Widnes, Wigan, hull, hull kr, Wakefield, bradford all signed a couple of props on.

David ferrioul was also off contract

Re: Royce Gone !! : Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:01 pm  

Smurf wrote:

Lauaki and Dudson are second rowers by trade. People would have levelled the same complaint they are now about converting second rowers.

Dudson isn't, out and out prop but he hasn't played for us yet this season. You thinking of Flower perhaps?

Re: Royce Gone !! : Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:16 pm  

St pete wrote:

Like I said, ten NRL props switched clubs last year.

I ain't listed any?

Blair, Gibbs, kite, king, hill, dudson, Luke bailey, griffin along with tye other NRL props that was available.

They were available. But this doesn't mean they were available to us. The NRL knows the value of a good prop. Which is why such very, very rarely come to the UK. I mean, sure - there was a time when we could offer significantly higher wages and this did attract some. But given the amount of lolly swilling around in the NRL these days (not to mention unfavourable exchange rates coming to the UK) we can no longer compete for all but one or two.

Some of the above names go beyond wishful thinking. Of the remainder you are forgetting those who see no good reason for signing with Saints. If I were a player looking for a SL club Leeds, Warrington and Wigan seem to offer better prospects.

We've got clough, laffranchci, TP all converted from the backrow with only perry and LMS as props by trade.

Since when did it become impossible for back row forwards to migrate to the front?

Have you forgotten that Kevin Ward, Andy Platt, Jamie Peacock and David Fairleigh - four of the greatest props in the last thirty years - ALL moved up from the second row?

Re: Royce Gone !! : Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:37 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

Have you forgotten that Kevin Ward, Andy Platt, Jamie Peacock and David Fairleigh - four of the greatest props in the last thirty years - ALL moved up from the second row?

And Graham.

I reckon Laffranchi has been our best prop so far this year, admittedly, none of them have been particulalrly good, but even so, he has done ok. Perry is an out and out prop, and he has failed dismally so far.

Re: Royce Gone !! : Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:05 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

Since when did it become impossible for back row forwards to migrate to the front?

Anyone who thinks TP and Clough are anything but props is on a different planet to me.

Re: Royce Gone !! : Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:05 pm  

Seems to be a few people on here a bit deluded, at the end of the day in most sports the coach/manager pays the price for poor performances and results. We are no doubt light in some areas of the team (An experienced halfback (not a guy who's mainly played fullback and hooker) and a monster prop) that may or may not be Royce's fault but it doesnt matter really as he is paid to coach what we have to perform at their peak week in week out and for whatever reason he's not managed it.

Time will tell if it was the correct decision at this point in the season but tbh I dont think his contract would have been renewed anyways so all we have done is bring forward the inevitable

With Rush and KC in charge I wonder if they'll make the tough calls? The Wello question springs to mind - for me he shouldn't be our first choice at 1 , if they see it too will they make the call and bench/change Wello's position ....

Re: Royce Gone !! : Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:08 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

Anyone who thinks TP and Clough are anything but props is on a different planet to me.

I kind of agree but I think TP would be fine in the second row if we had better options at prop , running wide he would create havoc and importantly space for our centre's with his ability to draw in defenders and offload

Clough is a bettering ram and a prop every day of the week

Re: Royce Gone !! : Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:14 pm  

No1 Saint wrote:

I kind of agree but I think TP would be fine in the second row if we had better options at prop , running wide he would create havoc and importantly space for our centre's with his ability to draw in defenders and offload

When we signed him, I was hoping for a Lauititi type second row to play out wide, but ever since he's pulled on the Vee he's played up the middle (and a very good one).

Re: Royce Gone !! : Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:16 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

When we signed him, I was hoping for a Lauititi type second row to play out wide, but ever since he's pulled on the Vee he's played up the middle (and a very good one).

Cant argue that, we need 2 of him really