Re: Business Tycoon banks his money in Castleford : Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:57 pm  

Hatfield tiger wrote: i personally find this talk of underhand business activities, tax avoidance, and a lack of moral ethics somewhat of a personal insult. I am a chartered accountant and am proud to say i am. The average chartered accountant will spend at least six years one way or another training and passing exams before they can use the term chartered accountant. They then spend another two years post qualification before they can even represent a client and a further two before you can sign a set of accounts or tax computations. It is one of the most heavily regulated industries in the country (potentially behind law and medicine) and every year i have to submit details of why i am a "fit a proper individual" to represent clients to a panel at the icaew to be allowed to continue practicing. Combine that with the six monthly ethics training i have to attend and you may begin to understand why the implication that the industry and the firms within it are somehow "dodgy" is somewhat offensive. Before you start to discredit a firm you may actually wish to understand what these companies do. And i mean really understand what they do rather than take the tabloid stance of banks/financial services and professional firms as being somehow harmful to our economy Probiz are fundamentally a group of accountants who act under the umbrella of "Probiz". They are a business advisory company who deal in professional services. Much like PWC - Ernst and Young This may involve accountancy services including financial reporting, taxation and business restructuring. It will also include services such as corporate finance, legal and statutory services and marketing services, along with providing things such as detailed business plans to companies to help assist banks with lending overdrafts. Of the services above i think you will the majority help to create value for their clients rather than as you put it "help them to not pay as much tax". Moving onto your second point: This talk of the wealthy people paying accountants to pay less tax is true. However what you have to remember is that if a wealthy individual saves tax via an accountant it leaves him or his company with more income to spend or invest. i.e. to create new businesses and in turn create new jobs - who in turn pay tax on their earnings. All individuals in society pay a basic rate of tax on all their earnings. 20% on pay up to £40k. Whilst the wealthier pay twice as much tax as basic rate tax payers on income of the £40k threshold. This idea that somehow the poor pay more because the rich pay less as you can see is simply incorrect. What accountants do is simply apply the rules to a scenario so as to minimise client’s tax. We do not make the rules. We do not bend the rules (unless we want to go to jail). If you want to blame anyone blame all politicians as they make the rules. If you really want know what accountants do - so next time you feel like insulting a profession/firm/individual who the majority of society hold in high esteem have a look here: http://www.icaew.com Thanks for taking the time to write all this, but I do know what Accountants firms do and I was not inferring they were doing anything illegal, just exploiting loopholes in the system. Clearly (as an example), if the majority of premiership footballers are not paying the full tax they should, then this leaves a significant gap between what is collected in tax and what could be. Consequently, I don't see why there isn't a correlation with them exploiting such loopholes and us average Joes paying more in tax (admittedly not PAYE which i appreciate I did not clarify, but other forms of tax). Regulation does not in itself mean that everbody does as they should (NB- I am not tarring all professionals with the same brush), you mention Solicitors as probably the most regulated, yet I have seen countless professional negligence claims against such firms for fraud and dishonesty - particularly relating to Mortgage Fraud, and I have also seen many professional negligence claims made against Accountants for various things including matters relative to tax advice.

Hatfield tiger wrote: i personally find this talk of underhand business activities, tax avoidance, and a lack of moral ethics somewhat of a personal insult. I am a chartered accountant and am proud to say i am. The average chartered accountant will spend at least six years one way or another training and passing exams before they can use the term chartered accountant. They then spend another two years post qualification before they can even represent a client and a further two before you can sign a set of accounts or tax computations. It is one of the most heavily regulated industries in the country (potentially behind law and medicine) and every year i have to submit details of why i am a "fit a proper individual" to represent clients to a panel at the icaew to be allowed to continue practicing. Combine that with the six monthly ethics training i have to attend and you may begin to understand why the implication that the industry and the firms within it are somehow "dodgy" is somewhat offensive. Before you start to discredit a firm you may actually wish to understand what these companies do. And i mean really understand what they do rather than take the tabloid stance of banks/financial services and professional firms as being somehow harmful to our economy Probiz are fundamentally a group of accountants who act under the umbrella of "Probiz". They are a business advisory company who deal in professional services. Much like PWC - Ernst and Young This may involve accountancy services including financial reporting, taxation and business restructuring. It will also include services such as corporate finance, legal and statutory services and marketing services, along with providing things such as detailed business plans to companies to help assist banks with lending overdrafts. Of the services above i think you will the majority help to create value for their clients rather than as you put it "help them to not pay as much tax". Moving onto your second point: This talk of the wealthy people paying accountants to pay less tax is true. However what you have to remember is that if a wealthy individual saves tax via an accountant it leaves him or his company with more income to spend or invest. i.e. to create new businesses and in turn create new jobs - who in turn pay tax on their earnings. All individuals in society pay a basic rate of tax on all their earnings. 20% on pay up to £40k. Whilst the wealthier pay twice as much tax as basic rate tax payers on income of the £40k threshold. This idea that somehow the poor pay more because the rich pay less as you can see is simply incorrect. What accountants do is simply apply the rules to a scenario so as to minimise client’s tax. We do not make the rules. We do not bend the rules (unless we want to go to jail). If you want to blame anyone blame all politicians as they make the rules. If you really want know what accountants do - so next time you feel like insulting a profession/firm/individual who the majority of society hold in high esteem have a look here: http://www.icaew.com Thanks for taking the time to write all this, but I do know what Accountants firms do and I was not inferring they were doing anything illegal, just exploiting loopholes in the system. Clearly (as an example), if the majority of premiership footballers are not paying the full tax they should, then this leaves a significant gap between what is collected in tax and what could be. Consequently, I don't see why there isn't a correlation with them exploiting such loopholes and us average Joes paying more in tax (admittedly not PAYE which i appreciate I did not clarify, but other forms of tax). Regulation does not in itself mean that everbody does as they should (NB- I am not tarring all professionals with the same brush), you mention Solicitors as probably the most regulated, yet I have seen countless professional negligence claims against such firms for fraud and dishonesty - particularly relating to Mortgage Fraud, and I have also seen many professional negligence claims made against Accountants for various things including matters relative to tax advice.

Re: Business Tycoon banks his money in Castleford : Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:01 pm  

Georgie Best on a Bloomer wrote:

Tricky2309 wrote:

Georgie Best on a Bloomer wrote:

Tricky2309 wrote:

Bonzo wrote:

Tricky2309 wrote:

It all sounds really good, but this is not Premier League Football, if he thinks you are going to attract a load of fans from overseas he is not as smart a business man as he thinks he is.

If you don't try, you'll never know.

Tricky2309 wrote:

I still think the fact one of his main businesses involves tax efficiency (or is it avoidance) is not necessarily something that ties in with the values of a RL club but thats just my opinion.

So it's not within the values of an RL club to create wealth and maximise profitability? If the company were specialising in illegal services I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be trading.

Tax efficiency is usually a term associated with very wealthy people who can afford to pay Accountants and firms like PROBIZ to avoid paying their dues in relation to taxes. Why else is his client bank including numerous celebrities/pro sports people. This in turn makes the rest of us average earning Joes have to pay more to fill the gap

I hope you can look in the eyes of our starving brothers and sisters in Africa and say that with sincerity. I'm sure they'll believe just how strong your argument is.

Sorry , but I am not quite sure what your point is and what relevance it has to mine?

Sorry. Moaning about "us average earning Joes having to pay more to fill the gap" would be sickening to those who have nothing at all.

Ok mate point taken, and of course I am not comparing the average Joes situation with those less fortunate people from the third world, but the point I was making was that some average Joes have very little left after paying their various taxes, whilst people who could afford to pay more don't due to exploitation of loopholes in the tax laws

Re: Business Tycoon banks his money in Castleford : Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:13 pm  

I hope you can look in the eyes of our starving brothers and sisters in Africa and say that with sincerity. I'm sure they'll believe just how strong your argument is.[/quote]

There will be plenty of that over here when these cuts bite! they will be sending us stuff

Re: Business Tycoon banks his money in Castleford : Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:38 pm  

Tricky2309 wrote:

Ok mate point taken, and of course I am not comparing the average Joes situation with those less fortunate people from the third world, but the point I was making was that some average Joes have very little left after paying their various taxes, whilst people who could afford to pay more don't due to exploitation of loopholes in the tax laws

Yeah I know where you're coming from on that one, but how many average Joes have paid cash to a tradesman to avoid VAT? Or been paid cash in hand for casual labour? Or been "self-employed" despite the fact that they only do contracted work for one customer?

ATEOTD what's fair for me might be unfair for you.

Re: Business Tycoon banks his money in Castleford : Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:44 pm  

wow strong statement,good luck folks but us yorkshire folk will beleive it when it happens.
Cant see the point in saying about the supporters clubs around the uk etc but hey he talks a good fight,best of luck !

Re: Business Tycoon banks his money in Castleford : Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:05 pm  

Apparently they are doing the same with Halifax http://www.halifaxrlfc.co.uk/page.php?id=1386 This could be interesting as they have also invested in West Bromich Albion as a platinum member same as Halifax they must have loads of cash that can only be good for you http://www.wba.co.uk/page/ClubPartnersD ... 66,00.html

Apparently they are doing the same with Halifax http://www.halifaxrlfc.co.uk/page.php?id=1386 This could be interesting as they have also invested in West Bromich Albion as a platinum member same as Halifax they must have loads of cash that can only be good for you http://www.wba.co.uk/page/ClubPartnersD ... 66,00.html

Re: Business Tycoon banks his money in Castleford : Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:04 am  

Hatfield tiger wrote: i personally find this talk of underhand business activities, tax avoidance, and a lack of moral ethics somewhat of a personal insult. I am a chartered accountant and am proud to say i am. The average chartered accountant will spend at least six years one way or another training and passing exams before they can use the term chartered accountant. They then spend another two years post qualification before they can even represent a client and a further two before you can sign a set of accounts or tax computations. It is one of the most heavily regulated industries in the country (potentially behind law and medicine) and every year i have to submit details of why i am a "fit a proper individual" to represent clients to a panel at the icaew to be allowed to continue practicing. Combine that with the six monthly ethics training i have to attend and you may begin to understand why the implication that the industry and the firms within it are somehow "dodgy" is somewhat offensive. Before you start to discredit a firm you may actually wish to understand what these companies do. And i mean really understand what they do rather than take the tabloid stance of banks/financial services and professional firms as being somehow harmful to our economy Probiz are fundamentally a group of accountants who act under the umbrella of "Probiz". They are a business advisory company who deal in professional services. Much like PWC - Ernst and Young This may involve accountancy services including financial reporting, taxation and business restructuring. It will also include services such as corporate finance, legal and statutory services and marketing services, along with providing things such as detailed business plans to companies to help assist banks with lending overdrafts. Of the services above i think you will the majority help to create value for their clients rather than as you put it "help them to not pay as much tax". Moving onto your second point: This talk of the wealthy people paying accountants to pay less tax is true. However what you have to remember is that if a wealthy individual saves tax via an accountant it leaves him or his company with more income to spend or invest. i.e. to create new businesses and in turn create new jobs - who in turn pay tax on their earnings. All individuals in society pay a basic rate of tax on all their earnings. 20% on pay up to £40k. Whilst the wealthier pay twice as much tax as basic rate tax payers on income of the £40k threshold. This idea that somehow the poor pay more because the rich pay less as you can see is simply incorrect. What accountants do is simply apply the rules to a scenario so as to minimise client’s tax. We do not make the rules. We do not bend the rules (unless we want to go to jail). If you want to blame anyone blame all politicians as they make the rules. If you really want know what accountants do - so next time you feel like insulting a profession/firm/individual who the majority of society hold in high esteem have a look here: http://www.icaew.com You show great loyalty to your occupation however, are you saying that all companies and all those people making millions a year pay income tax at the correct level YES or No. Do you also believe that the salary cap is fair or are there loopholes within the system that allow clubs to spend greater amounts on players contracts than others YES or NO

Hatfield tiger wrote: i personally find this talk of underhand business activities, tax avoidance, and a lack of moral ethics somewhat of a personal insult. I am a chartered accountant and am proud to say i am. The average chartered accountant will spend at least six years one way or another training and passing exams before they can use the term chartered accountant. They then spend another two years post qualification before they can even represent a client and a further two before you can sign a set of accounts or tax computations. It is one of the most heavily regulated industries in the country (potentially behind law and medicine) and every year i have to submit details of why i am a "fit a proper individual" to represent clients to a panel at the icaew to be allowed to continue practicing. Combine that with the six monthly ethics training i have to attend and you may begin to understand why the implication that the industry and the firms within it are somehow "dodgy" is somewhat offensive. Before you start to discredit a firm you may actually wish to understand what these companies do. And i mean really understand what they do rather than take the tabloid stance of banks/financial services and professional firms as being somehow harmful to our economy Probiz are fundamentally a group of accountants who act under the umbrella of "Probiz". They are a business advisory company who deal in professional services. Much like PWC - Ernst and Young This may involve accountancy services including financial reporting, taxation and business restructuring. It will also include services such as corporate finance, legal and statutory services and marketing services, along with providing things such as detailed business plans to companies to help assist banks with lending overdrafts. Of the services above i think you will the majority help to create value for their clients rather than as you put it "help them to not pay as much tax". Moving onto your second point: This talk of the wealthy people paying accountants to pay less tax is true. However what you have to remember is that if a wealthy individual saves tax via an accountant it leaves him or his company with more income to spend or invest. i.e. to create new businesses and in turn create new jobs - who in turn pay tax on their earnings. All individuals in society pay a basic rate of tax on all their earnings. 20% on pay up to £40k. Whilst the wealthier pay twice as much tax as basic rate tax payers on income of the £40k threshold. This idea that somehow the poor pay more because the rich pay less as you can see is simply incorrect. What accountants do is simply apply the rules to a scenario so as to minimise client’s tax. We do not make the rules. We do not bend the rules (unless we want to go to jail). If you want to blame anyone blame all politicians as they make the rules. If you really want know what accountants do - so next time you feel like insulting a profession/firm/individual who the majority of society hold in high esteem have a look here: http://www.icaew.com You show great loyalty to your occupation however, are you saying that all companies and all those people making millions a year pay income tax at the correct level YES or No. Do you also believe that the salary cap is fair or are there loopholes within the system that allow clubs to spend greater amounts on players contracts than others YES or NO

Re: Business Tycoon banks his money in Castleford : Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:06 am  

gizmo wrote: Hatfield tiger wrote: i personally find this talk of underhand business activities, tax avoidance, and a lack of moral ethics somewhat of a personal insult. I am a chartered accountant and am proud to say i am. The average chartered accountant will spend at least six years one way or another training and passing exams before they can use the term chartered accountant. They then spend another two years post qualification before they can even represent a client and a further two before you can sign a set of accounts or tax computations. It is one of the most heavily regulated industries in the country (potentially behind law and medicine) and every year i have to submit details of why i am a "fit a proper individual" to represent clients to a panel at the icaew to be allowed to continue practicing. Combine that with the six monthly ethics training i have to attend and you may begin to understand why the implication that the industry and the firms within it are somehow "dodgy" is somewhat offensive. Before you start to discredit a firm you may actually wish to understand what these companies do. And i mean really understand what they do rather than take the tabloid stance of banks/financial services and professional firms as being somehow harmful to our economy Probiz are fundamentally a group of accountants who act under the umbrella of "Probiz". They are a business advisory company who deal in professional services. Much like PWC - Ernst and Young This may involve accountancy services including financial reporting, taxation and business restructuring. It will also include services such as corporate finance, legal and statutory services and marketing services, along with providing things such as detailed business plans to companies to help assist banks with lending overdrafts. Of the services above i think you will the majority help to create value for their clients rather than as you put it "help them to not pay as much tax". Moving onto your second point: This talk of the wealthy people paying accountants to pay less tax is true. However what you have to remember is that if a wealthy individual saves tax via an accountant it leaves him or his company with more income to spend or invest. i.e. to create new businesses and in turn create new jobs - who in turn pay tax on their earnings. All individuals in society pay a basic rate of tax on all their earnings. 20% on pay up to £40k. Whilst the wealthier pay twice as much tax as basic rate tax payers on income of the £40k threshold. This idea that somehow the poor pay more because the rich pay less as you can see is simply incorrect. What accountants do is simply apply the rules to a scenario so as to minimise client’s tax. We do not make the rules. We do not bend the rules (unless we want to go to jail). If you want to blame anyone blame all politicians as they make the rules. If you really want know what accountants do - so next time you feel like insulting a profession/firm/individual who the majority of society hold in high esteem have a look here: http://www.icaew.com You show great loyalty to your occupation however, are you saying that all companies and all those people making millions a year pay income tax at the correct level YES or No. Do you also believe that the salary cap is fair or are there loopholes within the system that allow clubs to spend greater amounts on players contracts than others YES or NO And what exactly has this to do with this thread ?

gizmo wrote: Hatfield tiger wrote: i personally find this talk of underhand business activities, tax avoidance, and a lack of moral ethics somewhat of a personal insult. I am a chartered accountant and am proud to say i am. The average chartered accountant will spend at least six years one way or another training and passing exams before they can use the term chartered accountant. They then spend another two years post qualification before they can even represent a client and a further two before you can sign a set of accounts or tax computations. It is one of the most heavily regulated industries in the country (potentially behind law and medicine) and every year i have to submit details of why i am a "fit a proper individual" to represent clients to a panel at the icaew to be allowed to continue practicing. Combine that with the six monthly ethics training i have to attend and you may begin to understand why the implication that the industry and the firms within it are somehow "dodgy" is somewhat offensive. Before you start to discredit a firm you may actually wish to understand what these companies do. And i mean really understand what they do rather than take the tabloid stance of banks/financial services and professional firms as being somehow harmful to our economy Probiz are fundamentally a group of accountants who act under the umbrella of "Probiz". They are a business advisory company who deal in professional services. Much like PWC - Ernst and Young This may involve accountancy services including financial reporting, taxation and business restructuring. It will also include services such as corporate finance, legal and statutory services and marketing services, along with providing things such as detailed business plans to companies to help assist banks with lending overdrafts. Of the services above i think you will the majority help to create value for their clients rather than as you put it "help them to not pay as much tax". Moving onto your second point: This talk of the wealthy people paying accountants to pay less tax is true. However what you have to remember is that if a wealthy individual saves tax via an accountant it leaves him or his company with more income to spend or invest. i.e. to create new businesses and in turn create new jobs - who in turn pay tax on their earnings. All individuals in society pay a basic rate of tax on all their earnings. 20% on pay up to £40k. Whilst the wealthier pay twice as much tax as basic rate tax payers on income of the £40k threshold. This idea that somehow the poor pay more because the rich pay less as you can see is simply incorrect. What accountants do is simply apply the rules to a scenario so as to minimise client’s tax. We do not make the rules. We do not bend the rules (unless we want to go to jail). If you want to blame anyone blame all politicians as they make the rules. If you really want know what accountants do - so next time you feel like insulting a profession/firm/individual who the majority of society hold in high esteem have a look here: http://www.icaew.com You show great loyalty to your occupation however, are you saying that all companies and all those people making millions a year pay income tax at the correct level YES or No. Do you also believe that the salary cap is fair or are there loopholes within the system that allow clubs to spend greater amounts on players contracts than others YES or NO And what exactly has this to do with this thread ?

Re: Business Tycoon banks his money in Castleford : Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:38 am  

gizmo wrote:

You show great loyalty to your occupation however, are you saying that all companies and all those people making millions a year pay income tax at the correct level YES or No. Do you also believe that the salary cap is fair or are there loopholes within the system that allow clubs to spend greater amounts on players contracts than others YES or NO

Sorry, but if it's legal then these people ARE paying income tax at the correct level... despite the fact that it might not be the level YOU want them to pay it at.

Re: Business Tycoon banks his money in Castleford : Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:54 am  

Totally off topic, but a return to the 95% supertax for the very wealthy would be a welcome day for me.

At least personal expenses are being capped at £100k now, so at least they should have to pay something.