Re: westerman : Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:51 pm  

Mrs Barista wrote:

You claimed the credit will have been poor throughout living memory. That's been debunked, because you made it up.

I think we're sort of agreeing now. Our financial position isn't great and has worsened. The question is how precarious it is. If you believe the filed accounts, which show high levels of indebtedness and losses in this tenure, and credit reports, which isn't pretty and on a downward trajectory, you'd be worried. And maybe reinforcing the point that fans' contributions to the club are on the vital end of the spectrum rather than "nice to have" is a reasonable thing to do. Just saying.

We're not agreeing at all. You perpetuate the myth that we're on the edge of a financial abyss and I say we're not. We appear poles apart to me. If pass ales are down and we disappear in the next 12 months then I'll openly admit you were right. if we're still here in 12 months, operating at full cap and running an U23's team that we don't need to then you can come and admit I'm right again.

As for the credit rating you still haven't answered my question about other clubs with no ground of their own.

I haven't seen the filed accounts, only the balance sheet which doesn't look great but without a knowledge of what is sat behind it is meaningless. For all we know, the bulk of the £2.2m creditor figure may be a loan to pearson

Re: westerman : Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:54 pm  

jimmyfivebellies wrote:

Surely the credit rating would have been affected by Kath leaving Pearson to sort out the six figure tax bill??

It's affected by a number of things but losing money and having no tangible assets means it is always going to be poor. I doubt it is any worse than most of the rest of SL though and in itself isn't any indication of whether the club is about to go pop, despite what some may have you believe

Re: westerman : Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:57 pm  

I'm sure with bumpy's extra £15 contribution this year we'll have nothing to worry about.

Re: westerman : Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:18 pm  

ccs wrote:

I'm sure with bumpy's extra £15 contribution this year we'll have nothing to worry about.

Re: westerman : Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:04 pm  

Jake the Peg wrote:

We're not agreeing at all. You perpetuate the myth that we're on the edge of a financial abyss and I say we're not. We appear poles apart to me. If pass ales are down and we disappear in the next 12 months then I'll openly admit you were right. if we're still here in 12 months, operating at full cap and running an U23's team that we don't need to then you can come and admit I'm right again.

As for the credit rating you still haven't answered my question about other clubs with no ground of their own.

I haven't seen the filed accounts, only the balance sheet which doesn't look great but without a knowledge of what is sat behind it is meaningless. For all we know, the bulk of the £2.2m creditor figure may be a loan to pearson

What I'm actually saying is this.

The club has lost £1.5m since 2010, lost money last year, is making redundancies and has a credit rating that has worsened appreciably over the last 12 months. I don't see that any of this can be contested. In this context the importance of season pass income to the club IMO is as, if not more, important than it's ever been. In my opinion there's a risk that if the proportion of people not renewing on here is replicated in our fanbase, our ability to operate as a top 8 team will be compromised. Maybe worse.

The bulk of the creditor number is likely to be to AP, of course. There's a note to the accounts that says a going concern basis for their preparation is only feasible because AP says he'll continue to provide backing for the next 12 months; without that backing we wouldn't be a going concern. That's not particularly unusual in RL clubs because of the significant reliance on benefactors by most teams.

As for relevant comparators, who would you suggest? Saints, Leeds, Warrington, Huddersfield and Cas either own their ground or their owners have a controlling stake IIRC. Wigan? Hull KR? Salford? I think Wakey own their ground too.

Re: westerman : Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:31 pm  

Mrs Barista wrote:

What I'm actually saying is this.

The club has lost £1.5m since 2010, lost money last year, is making redundancies and has a credit rating that has worsened appreciably over the last 12 months. I don't see that any of this can be contested. In this context the importance of season pass income to the club IMO is as, if not more, important than it's ever been. In my opinion there's a risk that if the proportion of people not renewing on here is replicated in our fanbase, our ability to operate as a top 8 team will be compromised. Maybe worse.

The bulk of the creditor number is likely to be to AP, of course. There's a note to the accounts that says a going concern basis for their preparation is only feasible because AP says he'll continue to provide backing for the next 12 months; without that backing we wouldn't be a going concern. That's not particularly unusual in RL clubs because of the significant reliance on benefactors by most teams.

As for relevant comparators, who would you suggest? Saints, Leeds, Warrington, Huddersfield and Cas either own their ground or their owners have a controlling stake IIRC. Wigan? Hull KR? Salford? I think Wakey own their ground too.

Wigans ground owned by Dave Whelan,Rovers have a long term lease (from a Don Robinson initiated company) and Salford is owned by council and Peel Holdings.As for Wakey their ground is owned by the Bank of Ireland

Re: westerman : Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:02 pm  

ccs wrote:

I'm sure with bumpy's extra £15 contribution this year we'll have nothing to worry about.

Can't help yourself can you, inflammatory posts are against the AUP but that's all someone of your type is capable of isn't it, insults & unreasonable posts with sod all substance.
How much I contribute to the club is none of your business but whatever I'm not sure how you worked out £15 but then again your calculations aren't exactly up to much cop with your £2.5million less income nonsense in the other thread.

Re: westerman : Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:12 pm  

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

Can't help yourself can you, inflammatory posts are against the AUP.
How much I contribute to the club is none of your business but whatever I'm not sure how you worked out £15 but then again your calculations aren't exactly up to much cop with your £2.5million less income nonsense in the other thread

Inflammatory? Try reading some of your recent posts if you really want to understand what the word means.

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

I'll get a general membership, I'm still struggling to get enthused for next year tbh but it'll be worth it to get the discount on the HullFC live

£60 (FC live)/2 + £45 (general membership) = £75.

So you're paying £15 more than last year.

If I were AP, I know where I'd tell you to stick it, but that would probably upset you, so I won't.

Re: westerman : Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:03 pm  

Doesn't really matter what anyone on here says as nobody knows the full details.

What is being said by Pearson is at best a plea and at worst a threat. Even if season passes fell by 1,000 the increase in revenue from sky and the golden handshake for the academy will more than offset it. The increased pressure from the SMC isn't financial and some should remember that.

I'm not sure how Pearson can sanction a 'marquee player' signing in Frank Pritchard then claim the club is going under to the fans. Sika Manu too! Yes a nice addittion, but is another 6-figure salary second rower needed?

It's like ordering a take-away on a Friday and then moaning you've only got beans on toast on a Saturday.

Re: westerman : Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:20 pm  

*1865* wrote:

Doesn't really matter what anyone on here says as nobody knows the full details.

What is being said by Pearson is at best a plea and at worst a threat. Even if season passes fell by 1,000 the increase in revenue from sky and the golden handshake for the academy will more than offset it. The increased pressure from the SMC isn't financial and some should remember that.

I'm not sure how Pearson can sanction a 'marquee player' signing in Frank Pritchard then claim the club is going under to the fans. Sika Manu too! Yes a nice addittion, but is another 6-figure salary second rower needed?

It's like ordering a take-away on a Friday and then moaning you've only got beans on toast on a Saturday.

You say that no one knows the full details yet claim definitively there will be no consequences if pass sales are down...