Re: Do the stats really lie? : Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:27 pm  

Mrs Barista wrote:

Been saying all season that people moaning about boring, 5 drives and a kick rugby haven't been watching the same team as me this season. We do look better with ball in hand, undoubtedly, and are looking to promote the ball much more than in previous seasons. We have also not been tw@tted by the likes of Wigan and Warrington this season, which again is a positive.

The issue for me is our dismal failure to trouble anyone above us in the table, Wire away and Cats at home apart. It's unacceptable to be having a must win game this weekend to even get into the 8. Unacceptable. We lack the mental steel and composure to win key games under Agar, fully evidenced by our record against clubs above us, our failure to win a play-off game for 4 years and to beat SL competition in the cup in over 3. So in summary, we are more entertaining, for sure. But losing 5 of every 6 games against teams above us under Agar is simply unacceptable. Scoring more tries along the way is welcome, but the league table doesn't lie.

Spot on. The bad start followed by a decent run mostly just relates to when we've had our games against the decent sides. We lost 7 out of 10 because 5 of those games were against the current top 7, we've actually won 9 of the last 15, but it's been helped by the fact that we've only played 7 league games against the same teams in that period and managed the Wire and Catalans results. So we were still only really the 2 results better.

This year we've simply improved our results against the bottom half of SL, that's all.

Re: Do the stats really lie? : Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:36 pm  

the most important stat is that we are 8th in a 16 team league and may be 9th at the end. bottom half of the table is not acceptable for this team. we should be contesting 4th as a minimum given our resources, fan base and off field set up

Re: Do the stats really lie? : Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:44 pm  

the artist wrote:

the most important stat is that we are 8th in a 16 team league and may be 9th at the end. bottom half of the table is not acceptable for this team. we should be contesting 4th as a minimum given our resources, fan base and off field set up

It's actually 8th out of 14, so we're already in the bottom half. We need to catch Cas to make the top half.

Re: Do the stats really lie? : Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:08 am  

Last year we won a number of close games (including against the better teams in the league) particularly at home. This year we have lost those games but generally beaten lower teams more convincingly. At the start of the season it was fashionable to post Agar's recent record of losses over the last x games. Less so now because as the OP stated 10 from the last 15 isn't bad.

We haven't won enough games at home this year (Wakefield/Cas being the costliest defeats). The style of play has been miles better thanks to the addition of more half back cover (Obst/Westerman) - we have ridden injury problems to Long and even Nicklas who would have played a lot of games otherwise. Overall we have neither gone forwards or backwards really which is a little disappointing.

Re: Do the stats really lie? : Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:38 am  

Staffs FC wrote:

Last year we won a number of close games (including against the better teams in the league) particularly at home. This year we have lost those games but generally beaten lower teams more convincingly. At the start of the season it was fashionable to post Agar's recent record of losses over the last x games. Less so now because as the OP stated 10 from the last 15 isn't bad.

We haven't won enough games at home this year (Wakefield/Cas being the costliest defeats). The style of play has been miles better thanks to the addition of more half back cover (Obst/Westerman) - we have ridden injury problems to Long and even Nicklas who would have played a lot of games otherwise. Overall we have neither gone forwards or backwards really which is a little disappointing.

This time last year we were looking like we could finish 4th, this year it's 7th at best and potentially 9th. I'd say that was backwards

Re: Do the stats really lie? : Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:34 am  

Jake the Peg wrote:

This time last year we were looking like we could finish 4th, this year it's 7th at best and potentially 9th. I'd say that was backwards

It was the first two/three months that crippled us this year. Don't forget that we had planned to go into 2011 with Berrigan & Tansey, who both left fairly suddenly and we weren't able to replace straight away - I think this was a major factor.

Since then we've looked good (not great), and as the stats say, we've been putting some big points on teams. We've done this without Long (and the chunk of cap space that comes with him).

Should we start next season in a similar fashion and maintain it, we should be looking at top 4, we have the squad to do it (barring a forward or two which we'll hopefully sign).

Re: Do the stats really lie? : Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:05 am  

Marfa Manu wrote:

Some good valid points, I think our 5 drives and a kick are a myth. We have certainly played more expansive rugby this season.

However the results or league positioning do not lie.

We have definitely gone away from 5 drives and a kick and have been more exciting to watch this season (although some off the offloads have been a bit crazy) but as Marfa says look where it has got us in terms of league position.

Do we want an entertaining team or do we want to win matches? Obviously the answer is both but how do we achieve that? I think we all know the answer to that!

Re: Do the stats really lie? : Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:25 am  

Its a really interesting point I think. Hull have been terribly average for 4 years, the first of those seasons we were genuinely shocking. However I remember one season were we lost 70% of our games by less than a try. likewise this year all those stats look great.

Also if you head to the player stats section of the rugby league website compare Tom Briscoe to most wingers and he's technically amazing, likewise with Danny Houghton.

Our Stats are often good.

What I think this season has shown is that we can can seriously put weak teams to the sword. Something we couldn't do in 08 and 09. However we can't beat the big teams. We lack finesse and guile and genuine class.

We haven't beaten Leeds in ten outings, Quins have.

Re: Do the stats really lie? : Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:16 pm  

Cardiff_05 wrote: Not been on here for a while as have been on holiday, but was catching up with a few articles on the official website and a couple stood out in particular. The following stats were mentioned in these two articles (http://www.hullfc.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=18407 & http://www.hullfc.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=18388): - The Black and Whites have won ten of their last fifteen Super League outings, a record that can only be bettered by the top two of Wigan and Warrington - The 106 tries scored this season is the most we have registered since making the Grand Final in 2006 - The wins against Catalans and Crusaders meant we notched up over 90 points in back-to-back fixtures for the first time since 2004 - The 58-18 win against Crusaders RL was the first time that the club have notched up five 50+ scores in a season since joining Super League Stats do not lie but they can also be very misleading. 10 from 15 is wrong because it would be 9-1-5 from 15. In that period we also managed a run of 4 defeats from 5 games (1 a cup game), so it offers differing pictures depending on which way you look at it. As well as the majority of those 9 we won being bottom half opposition.

Cardiff_05 wrote: Not been on here for a while as have been on holiday, but was catching up with a few articles on the official website and a couple stood out in particular. The following stats were mentioned in these two articles (http://www.hullfc.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=18407 & http://www.hullfc.com/newsarticle.aspx?n=18388): - The Black and Whites have won ten of their last fifteen Super League outings, a record that can only be bettered by the top two of Wigan and Warrington - The 106 tries scored this season is the most we have registered since making the Grand Final in 2006 - The wins against Catalans and Crusaders meant we notched up over 90 points in back-to-back fixtures for the first time since 2004 - The 58-18 win against Crusaders RL was the first time that the club have notched up five 50+ scores in a season since joining Super League Stats do not lie but they can also be very misleading. 10 from 15 is wrong because it would be 9-1-5 from 15. In that period we also managed a run of 4 defeats from 5 games (1 a cup game), so it offers differing pictures depending on which way you look at it. As well as the majority of those 9 we won being bottom half opposition.

Re: Do the stats really lie? : Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:26 pm  

whether stats do, or don't lie, the table certainly doesn't.