Re: Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:47 am  

The Devil's Advocate wrote:

I’m sure nobody else would want to rent it, but if the club don’t take up the letting wouldn’t the BOI just sell up?

Fair point, but whom to and for what? Don't forget, planning condition 38 says you can't build houses on it until it is discharged, which means you, or someone else, need to build a new stadium at Newmarket. Getting that planning condition lifted is very hard and would take lots of time, money and effort... not impossible, just money and time. So, while that is happening the BOI have to start and pay money to keep ownership of an empty stadium asset! I reckon rates, security and insurance say £5k a month! How long will they need to pay it for? They were getting a tidy sum of £10k a month for doing sweet FA and now they are shelling out £5k a month... who let that happen the high-ups in the BOI are going to say! A reduced fair rent means they are still getting income from an asset, an empty stadium means it is costing them to keep it and are going to struggle to sell it unless they spend even more money sorting out the issues!

Oh, and the site is probably not worth anywhere near what you might expect, trust me on that one... there is much money to be spent getting that site development ready!

Re: Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:39 pm  

Inflatable_Armadillo wrote:

Fair point, but whom to and for what? Don't forget, planning condition 38 says you can't build houses on it until it is discharged, which means you, or someone else, need to build a new stadium at Newmarket. Getting that planning condition lifted is very hard and would take lots of time, money and effort... not impossible, just money and time. So, while that is happening the BOI have to start and pay money to keep ownership of an empty stadium asset! I reckon rates, security and insurance say £5k a month! How long will they need to pay it for? They were getting a tidy sum of £10k a month for doing sweet FA and now they are shelling out £5k a month... who let that happen the high-ups in the BOI are going to say! A reduced fair rent means they are still getting income from an asset, an empty stadium means it is costing them to keep it and are going to struggle to sell it unless they spend even more money sorting out the issues!

Oh, and the site is probably not worth anywhere near what you might expect, trust me on that one... there is much money to be spent getting that site development ready!

£2.5m pre-recession. Today, at roughly 30k per plot for 80 houses, I reckon 2m would be an appropriate value taking into consideration the run down nature of the area.

It would certainly be an attractive proposition to a high volume developer but as you say the cost in time and expense to discharge the condition could put most off. The lower the value of the land the more likely a developer would take a punt on it.

That of course is assuming there are no hidden skeletons (both figuratively and literally speaking) buried deep under the BV turf!

Re: Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:06 pm  

Slugger McBatt wrote: I appreciate that this might be partly brinksmanship, but of course one potential outcome is that this is our last year at Belle Vue. It was a genuine enquiry about the middle 8's. Although it might not turn out to be the end of Belle Vue as a rugby stadium (and as you have alluded to, the decision behind the serving of six months notice is sound) if it is, two months will be too late for people who might find it difficult to get to Belle Vue on the last fixture but would make an extra effort for the "last game". Or even might want to spend longer there on the last day. So let's say that one of the scenarios is that we leave Belle Vue in six months time, does anyone know when the last game would be, knowing how the middle 8's work? Would hate to be turning up at the Rams stadium next year, for example, because the six months notice had expired and realising that the game against whoever had been the last one at Belle Vue and I'd just mooched out without a second glance. No dates as yet but this might help: http://www.rugbyleaguechampionships.co.uk/rlnewera

Slugger McBatt wrote: I appreciate that this might be partly brinksmanship, but of course one potential outcome is that this is our last year at Belle Vue. It was a genuine enquiry about the middle 8's. Although it might not turn out to be the end of Belle Vue as a rugby stadium (and as you have alluded to, the decision behind the serving of six months notice is sound) if it is, two months will be too late for people who might find it difficult to get to Belle Vue on the last fixture but would make an extra effort for the "last game". Or even might want to spend longer there on the last day. So let's say that one of the scenarios is that we leave Belle Vue in six months time, does anyone know when the last game would be, knowing how the middle 8's work? Would hate to be turning up at the Rams stadium next year, for example, because the six months notice had expired and realising that the game against whoever had been the last one at Belle Vue and I'd just mooched out without a second glance. No dates as yet but this might help: http://www.rugbyleaguechampionships.co.uk/rlnewera

Re: Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:14 pm  

Inflatable_Armadillo wrote:

Fair point, but whom to and for what? Don't forget, planning condition 38 says you can't build houses on it until it is discharged, which means you, or someone else, need to build a new stadium at Newmarket. Getting that planning condition lifted is very hard and would take lots of time, money and effort... not impossible, just money and time. So, while that is happening the BOI have to start and pay money to keep ownership of an empty stadium asset! I reckon rates, security and insurance say £5k a month! How long will they need to pay it for? They were getting a tidy sum of £10k a month for doing sweet FA and now they are shelling out £5k a month... who let that happen the high-ups in the BOI are going to say! A reduced fair rent means they are still getting income from an asset, an empty stadium means it is costing them to keep it and are going to struggle to sell it unless they spend even more money sorting out the issues!

Oh, and the site is probably not worth anywhere near what you might expect, trust me on that one... there is much money to be spent getting that site development ready!

Maybe a developer could find a loophole.

Re: Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:16 pm  

Khlav Kalash wrote:

That of course is assuming there are no hidden skeletons (both figuratively and literally speaking) buried deep under the BV turf!

Interesting thought... makes you wonder!

Re: Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:31 pm  

Khlav Kalash wrote:

That of course is assuming there are no hidden skeletons (both figuratively and literally speaking) buried deep under the BV turf!

John Pearmans mystery dissapearance solved

Re: Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:40 pm  

Inflatable_Armadillo wrote:

Fair point, but whom to and for what? Don't forget, planning condition 38 says you can't build houses on it until it is discharged, which means you, or someone else, need to build a new stadium at Newmarket. Getting that planning condition lifted is very hard and would take lots of time, money and effort... not impossible, just money and time. So, while that is happening the BOI have to start and pay money to keep ownership of an empty stadium asset! I reckon rates, security and insurance say £5k a month! How long will they need to pay it for? They were getting a tidy sum of £10k a month for doing sweet FA and now they are shelling out £5k a month... who let that happen the high-ups in the BOI are going to say! A reduced fair rent means they are still getting income from an asset, an empty stadium means it is costing them to keep it and are going to struggle to sell it unless they spend even more money sorting out the issues!

Oh, and the site is probably not worth anywhere near what you might expect, trust me on that one... there is much money to be spent getting that site development ready!

A point of interest about condition 38 (though I am not suggesting a legal point) is that it meant that the club could not be forced out and find themselves groundless. A laudable condition. However now we have the prospect of the club voluntarily moving and NOT being groundless. Maybe some wiggle room for BoI etc?

Re: Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:44 pm  

Cripesginger wrote:

A point of interest about condition 38 (though I am not suggesting a legal point) is that it meant that the club could not be forced out and find themselves groundless. A laudable condition. However now we have the prospect of the club voluntarily moving and NOT being groundless. Maybe some wiggle room for BoI etc?

That's my concern.

Re: Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:09 pm  

Cripesginger wrote:

A point of interest about condition 38 (though I am not suggesting a legal point) is that it meant that the club could not be forced out and find themselves groundless. A laudable condition. However now we have the prospect of the club voluntarily moving and NOT being groundless. Maybe some wiggle room for BoI etc?

Would not think so. The condition is clear, Belle Vue cannot be developed until Newmarket is built. The fact that we may not be playing there does not change the fact that we have no home.

The BOI may try to get the condition removed as they have already done but we and Sport England would object again and hopefully the outcome would be the same. Also any application to get the condition removed would be costly.

Re: Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:37 pm  

Sandal Cat wrote:

Would not think so. The condition is clear, Belle Vue cannot be developed until Newmarket is built. The fact that we may not be playing there does not change the fact that we have no home.

The BOI may try to get the condition removed as they have already done but we and Sport England would object again and hopefully the outcome would be the same. Also any application to get the condition removed would be costly.

Does serving notice to quit have any effect on this clause ?