Re: More Football Chat : Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:23 pm  

At least Benitez didn't spend a sizeable amount from the non-existent imaginary pot of money he was never given to take him to Anfield.

Re: More Football Chat : Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:34 pm  

I'm bemused that so many people think that Benitez is some kind of football god on a blip. A jammy European Cup with Liverpool and a couple of other trophies with what was effectively Houllier's squad, and a few sackings in Spain and now Italy. Repeated falling out with various members of his own staff. Only at Valencia did he excel.

I would be horrified if he turned up at City. He's like a Spanish Megson.

Re: More Football Chat : Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:36 pm  

Liverpool's midfield is criminally short of quality since Mascherano and Alonso left. Take out Gerrard (who is more of an advanced midfielder / support striker these days) and there is no quality or drive in there. They have no ball winning midfielder, no creative player and more apparent than anything for me is the lack of pace throughout the side particularly in the attacking areas. Just look at the current top 5 clubs and all 5 of them have fast players who will run at defences. Chelsea have Malouda, Anelka, Essien and Kalou. Man Utd have Nani, Valencia and Rooney. Man City have Ballotelli, Milner, Johnson, Y. Toure and Silva. Arsenal have Nasri, Fabregas, Arshavin, Wilshere and Diaby. Tottenham have Bale, Lennon, Modric and Defoe. Liverpool have nobody. Gerrard and Torres are capable, but need to be at their very best. The likes of Lucas, Maxi, Kuyt and Poulsen shouldn;t be first choice midfielders for a club as big as Liverpool. If they're going to recruit anywhere, that's where they should be looking desperately.

Re: More Football Chat : Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:01 pm  

Urmston Wire wrote:

I'm bemused that so many people think that Benitez is some kind of football god on a blip. A jammy European Cup with Liverpool and a couple of other trophies with what was effectively Houllier's squad, and a few sackings in Spain and now Italy. Repeated falling out with various members of his own staff. Only at Valencia did he excel.

I would be horrified if he turned up at City. He's like a Spanish Megson.

There was a post on one of the Liverpool forums by this guy that got tonnes of praise. He was basically saying that Benitez was in the process of building a legacy at Liverpool which was interrupted by his sacking. This poster's big concern was that Rafa would end up at City where he'd be given time and money to support his vision thereby dominating the Premier League until he retires. I'm with you though lol.

Re: More Football Chat : Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:15 pm  

McClennan wrote:

There was a post on one of the Liverpool forums by this guy that got tonnes of praise. He was basically saying that Benitez was in the process of building a legacy at Liverpool which was interrupted by his sacking. This poster's big concern was that Rafa would end up at City where he'd be given time and money to support his vision thereby dominating the Premier League until he retires. I'm with you though lol.

My god some people are just plain deluded

Re: More Football Chat : Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:21 pm  

McClennan wrote:

There was a post on one of the Liverpool forums by this guy that got tonnes of praise. He was basically saying that Benitez was in the process of building a legacy at Liverpool which was interrupted by his sacking. This poster's big concern was that Rafa would end up at City where he'd be given time and money to support his vision thereby dominating the Premier League until he retires. I'm with you though lol.

Have found the original post

One thing that often gets overlooked is the fact that Rafa is still only 50 years of age. Which is ridiculously young for a top manager. By the age of 46 he had already racked up 2 La Liga titles, The UEFA Cup, The Champions League, The Super Cup, The FA Cup, as well as being UEFA Manager of the year twice. Even his sternest critics must admit that at the tender age of 50, Rafa has one of the best Managerial CV's in the game. It often makes me laugh when I see the whoppers on here naming the likes of Hiddink, Capello, Pellegrini et al, as managers they would love to see at Liverpool. These guys are all 10 to 15 years older than Rafa.

Heck, when Ferguson was Rafa's age all he had on his CV was 3 Scottish League titles and a UEFA Cup winners Cup. Ferguson was 57 before he managed to reach a European Cup final. Rafa had been in 2 of them at the age of 47, and a UEFA Cup final to boot. I bet Arsene Wenger would give his right bollock to have the same European track record as Rafa, and Wenger is almost 12 years the elder. The crux of my point is, Rafa was a top manager at a very young age. And despite the last 18 months, he is still without a shadow of a doubt, one of the best coaches in the game. In another 10 years he will be even better. His appetite for learning will ensure it. The man eats, sleeps, breathes, and shits football. I wouldn't be surprised if he tags on another couple of European Cups before he reaches 60.

The thing you have to remember about Rafa is, he is not the type of coach who likes to swan into a club for a couple of years, and then love off elsewhere. He isn't in the game for money, fame, or attention like that whore in Madrid, he is in it because he is a football obsessive. Rafa likes to build clubs from the ground up. His ideas are long term. He got it right when he was at Valencia. In their pomp they were a supreme football machine. Anyone who remembers Valencia's visit to Anfield should recall how they literally embarrassed us in our own back yard.

The biggest love up that Valencia made was that their board didn't share the same long term vision as Rafa. Had he stayed there, and had they backed him accordingly, Rafa would have wreaked havoc on the continent with that side. No question or doubt about it. Even more havoc than he wreaked with us. You can bet your bottom dollar Valencia realized what a love up they made when they saw Rafa holding the Champions league trophy in 2005.

He almost got it right with us too. 2009 should have been our year. We were just desperately unlucky. Some of the football we played that season was Valencia-esque. Man Utd, Real Madrid, and Aston Villa in particular, all felt what it was like to be on the receiving end of a fully functional Benitez side. I.E they got absolutely battered from start to finish. Rafa was on the verge of putting us on roughly the same level as he had put Valencia in 2001. We were almost there. It's agonizing to think back on it, but that's football. Sometimes you get the breaks, sometimes you don't.

Speaking of breaks, we got a bad one when Xabi wanted to leave. People often underestimate just how much of an impact Xabi's departure had on the team. Rafa built the side around him from day 1. He was Rafa's eyes and ears on the pitch for us. Gerrards admission that he almost cried when he heard Xabi was leaving is proof of this. It was a killer blow, but it was a blow which we could have recovered from. It just needed time. A lot more time than Rafa was afforded.

I'm not saying Rafa doesn't have his flaws, he clearly does. Of course he has made mistakes. But he is young, he is still learning. We're not talking about a guy who just came in and got lucky with us in 2005. This is a guy who had already proved himself, a two time European Manager of the year who wanted to finally realize his grand vision for a footballing institution. That institution should have been us.

Which is why I fear if we don't allow him to return to finish what he started here, then he will probably go to Man City and build a team that will dominate for years. The thought of which is too much to even ponder. Rafa will realize his vision one day. It may take him a few years, but do it he shall. My biggest fear is that when does, we will all look back from a top the hills that we all thought were greener, and think "love it, we should have given him a second chance"

Bring him back I say. love the myopic, short memoried idiots who lambaste him. They are fools. Fools who simply do not grasp that the working methods of Rafa Benitez are part of a masterplan. We have Bondel and Segura working with the youth team now, with tremendous effect. All thanks to Rafa. The future is bright. We have owners with a track record of achieving long term success. We just need a manager who can make it work. A manager who loves the club, and loves the fans. That man is sitting in the Wirral right now. Please John Henry, bring back Rafael Benitez. Give him his chance to make himself a hero. Lord knows, for all he has done for us, he deserves it.

Re: More Football Chat : Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:30 pm  

Dita's Slot Meter wrote:

Sorry mate, don't see much improvement, unless you are going by their Football Manager ratings....

You may take that into regard to, but I stopped doing that at 14 when it was still Championship Manager

Lucas and Rodriguez are no better than anybody in your first list....

Nope, Alonso was far better. Rodriguez is more consistent than Garcia, but hit's neither the highs, nor the lows, that he did in his time at the club

Skrtel v Hyypia?....I'd have the Finn....

So would I, thanks for reiterating what I said in the post you quoted.

Goalies are pretty much irrelevent if behind a dodgy defence....

I disagree entirely, a good goalkeeper can shore up a dodgy defence to a point, a poor one will not.

Johnson is vastly over-rated,

He is.

certainly no better a defender than Finnan has ever been

I agree again, but is far, far better going forward.

and I'd have Baros giving 100% over Torres playing the tortured soul up front.

I wouldn't. He offers the same at 100% that Torres does at 50%, with less of a goal threat.

[/quote]I don't think anybody has ever said that Hodgson is better than Benitez....Most people are questioning the state of the squad that Benitez left behind and on that there is little doubt that its a huge fail.[/quote]

We have been holed badly with the loss of Alonso and Mascherano. Add those two to the squad and it looks so much better. We were at a point where we could go about business like United, buying one or two £20m plus players to add to the squad, instead we lost the central midfield pairing that was key to us finishing second. We could, and probably should, have had a better squad at the end of last year, but the comment that Benitez left us in a worse state than he found us is a fallacy.

Re: More Football Chat : Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:35 pm  

Catalancs wrote:

Didn't Benitez let Hyppia go on a free?
I can see three top quality players there and unless I'm mistaken Benitez only brought two of them in.

He was 35, wanted a longer contract than was offered and first team football. I'd have liked him to have stayed, but the pace of the PL was starting to catch up with him.

[Wanderer]

Re: More Football Chat : Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:13 pm  

Urmston Wire wrote:

I'm bemused that so many people think that Benitez is some kind of football god on a blip. A jammy European Cup with Liverpool and a couple of other trophies with what was effectively Houllier's squad, and a few sackings in Spain and now Italy. Repeated falling out with various members of his own staff. Only at Valencia did he excel.

I would be horrified if he turned up at City. He's like a Spanish Megson.

PMSL

Re: More Football Chat : Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:31 pm  

Urmston Wire wrote:

I would be horrified if he turned up at City. He's like a Spanish Megson.

Yeah, because Megson's won a European Cup.