Re: Festive Football Chat : Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:21 pm  

Robbie Rotten wrote:

I agree. I, like most supporters, have never demanded a title. Sure, the club has a massive history full of silverware, but I knew demanding trophies, especially the big two, was unrealistic. However, Rafa did set the standard pretty high for himself, some said we overachieved and we did, to a degree, but in 5 years he turned us to one of Europe's finest, there was pretty much progress every season, the squad was getting stronger. This season we have failed immensely, the decline seems so fast and so big, it's hard to take for most. I feel at times he has lost the dressing room, the stuff they're doing, it isn't just mistakes and it isn't just confidence, it's been like this since day one this season and things are getting worse. There isn't a man I want to see succeed more at Liverpool than Rafa, his dedication and effort need to be rewarded, but this season it feels like we've taken strides backwards. I felt it early on and our form in Europe was most unacceptable, I think other than Fergie and Wenger, most managers would have been sacked by now, I'm really unsure if Rafa's the man to turn things around at this point. He's a man of little emotion and, at the moment, the team are showing little emotion on the pitch, I feel they need somebody they want to play for. Of course, I'm just guessing about this, things may be fine in the dressing room and it's simply footballing reasons, but I feel that's unlikely.

Another problem is Rafa's continued faith in some players, it's like Houllier with Heskey all over again. Dirk Kuyt and Lucas are, for me, two of our worst players, yet they are integral parts of our squad in Rafa's opinion. He has a £17m midfielder sat on the bench, he wrapped him in cotton wool for a month after his debut, he's given him very little playing time, it feels like Rafa's oblivious to Alberto's talents at times, it seems he's oblivious to a lot of player's talents at times (Pacheco, Nemeth, Ayala). He made his debut at the end of October yet it still feels like Rafa won't be starting him until the new year, it's depressing.

A lot of people are blaming the loss of Alonso for our problems but it is much more than that for me. United lost the best player in the world and another fantastic player to go with, they lost £100m+ worth of players in the summer and replaced them with a striker on a free and a decent winger for £17m. Hardly inspirational signings but they're still competing, they're still up there and I honestly can't understand why we aren't, especially after the fantastic platform built last year.

He's got till the end of the season to turn it round I reckon if we don't get 4th he should/will walk, the next few games need to be confidence building we play Wolves twice in like 6 weeks (Masha out so AA must start??) right now that team looks shot no leaders no nothing (stand up Mr S Gerrard) no one wants to know its clear, even before the Pomey I said to my mate theres is no way we will win today, the only way is to pull themselves up but who knows it might get worst before it gets better.

Don't kid yourself into thinking everything in the OT garden is rosey because its anything but.

honestly can't understand why we aren't, especially after the fantastic platform built last year


Funny you say that because on the subject of Rafa losing players I was thinking maybe not winning the title last season was where it started? we drew games Stoke/Wigan/City/Stoke/Fulham an really should of put the mancs to the sword andwon it, maybe after coming so close the players don't have that faith in him anymore.

Re: Festive Football Chat : Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:25 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

I don't think he would suddenly walk if Chelsea win the CL. I think it's a sad fantasy of supporters of other clubs. I find the whole notion of, "He'll just get bored of football and leave the club in trouble" ridiculous.

But even if he did go, I'd still be thankful for what he;s done for us. I'd accept whatever outcome we were left in. I doubt he'd leave us in trouble, but you never know.

IMO it's far more likely Torres and/or Gerrard will walk from Liverpool because they want title challenges and CL football.

More likely to be a £70Mill bid from City for Torres next season (Which is a big rumour) which the yanks would love plus it would be two birds with one stone as Rafa has already said should Torres be sold he will walk.

Re: Festive Football Chat : Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:28 pm  

Wire_85 wrote:

He's got till the end of the season to turn it round I reckon if we don't get 4th he should/will walk, the next few games need to be confidence building we play Wolves twice in like 6 weeks (Masha out so AA must start??) right now that team looks shot no leaders no nothing (stand up Mr S Gerrard) no one wants to know its clear, even before the Pomey I said to my mate theres is no way we will win today, the only way is to pull themselves up but who knows it might get worst before it gets better.

Don't kid yourself into thinking everything in the OT garden is rosey because its anything but.

honestly can't understand why we aren't, especially after the fantastic platform built last year


Funny you say that because on the subject of Rafa losing players I was thinking maybe not winning the title last season was where it started? we drew games Stoke/Wigan/City/Stoke/Fulham an really should of put the mancs to the sword andwon it, maybe after coming so close the players don't have that faith in him anymore.

Everything at United ain't rosey, I know that, but they consistently compete for trophies every single year, we muster up a proper title challenge for the first time this decade and we end up taking strides backwards.

To be honest, there seems to be no confidence from anywhere, our supporters have no confidence in the team (including myself), the players have no confidence and the manager is losing grip on the side.

I dunno when it started, pre-season wasn't the best and there were kind of signs then, I mean, only the Spaniards went to major international tournaments (I think), but even then, there was very little momentum picked up then. I remember us getting spanked by Espanyol and I was getting the feeling then, I hoped after the Alonso situation cleared up, we'd get back on track but we've been in freefall the past couple of months.

Re: Festive Football Chat : Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:29 pm  

flipper wrote:

Not seen it, just read the transcript, 'sounds' odd.

I saw his interview with the Beeb.

He repeated his "perfect" mantra with the BBC, Sky and carried it on with the printed press as well.

I think he's really, really lucky the Mancs' had their mad weekend because they've defelected the attention away from him. If this had been a normal weekend he'd have been ripped apart over this.

In his defence I do wonder whether he's hampered a little because of his problems with the English language. I don't know how reliable this is, but I've read that Benitez is much better speaking in Italian than Mourinho is.

Re: Festive Football Chat : Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:31 pm  

Wire_85 wrote:

Don't kid yourself into thinking everything in the OT garden is rosey because its anything but.

honestly can't understand why we aren't, especially after the fantastic platform built last year


Funny you say that because on the subject of Rafa losing players I was thinking maybe not winning the title last season was where it started? we drew games Stoke/Wigan/City/Stoke/Fulham an really should of put the mancs to the sword andwon it, maybe after coming so close the players don't have that faith in him anymore.

I think there is an element of that about it, you could have / should have won it - there is no guarentee having gone close, that you will kick on the following year.

Do you think he would walk? Can you afford to sack him?

United are spluttering, but prior to last weekend were 9 goals better off than this time last year, Chelsea should really have put some distance between themselves and the pack, IF United can get through the intouch and a few bodies start to become available - you never know.

Re: Festive Football Chat : Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:32 pm  

Wire_85 wrote:

More likely to be a £70Mill bid from City for Torres next season (Which is a big rumour) which the yanks would love plus it would be two birds with one stone as Rafa has already said should Torres be sold he will walk.

TBH I don't know why Citeh, Chelsea and Man United aren't putting in bids for him right now.

Re: Festive Football Chat : Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:36 pm  

Robbie Rotten wrote:

Everything at United ain't rosey, I know that, but they consistently compete for trophies every single year, we muster up a proper title challenge for the first time this decade and we end up taking strides backwards.

To be honest, there seems to be no confidence from anywhere, our supporters have no confidence in the team (including myself), the players have no confidence and the manager is losing grip on the side.

I dunno when it started, pre-season wasn't the best and there were kind of signs then, I mean, only the Spaniards went to major international tournaments (I think), but even then, there was very little momentum picked up then. I remember us getting spanked by Espanyol and I was getting the feeling then, I hoped after the Alonso situation cleared up, we'd get back on track but we've been in freefall the past couple of months.

They built and built though Rob top 25Mill + signings year after year (Rio/Berbatov/Rooney) on a base of already quality players, if it weren't for Chelsea doing there best to fcuuuk up they would be long gone.

You will hear alot more about that Ronaldo money if they dont win anything this season.

It says alot when you win the Prem again and sell a player for 80 Milll but have not lot of cash to spend.

Re: Festive Football Chat : Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:38 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

TBH I don't know why Citeh, Chelsea and Man United aren't putting in bids for him right now.

Chelsea already have twice in past seasons I think £50Mill but it might have been paper talk.

Re: Festive Football Chat : Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:39 pm  

Wire_85 wrote:

Don't kid yourself into thinking everything in the OT garden is rosey because its anything but.

Aye, the main difference is that we're getting better results on the field, and Fergie is better than Rafa at covering up the problems off the field.

Doesn't look like we'll be getting anybody in January either.

Re: Festive Football Chat : Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:42 pm  

flipper wrote:

I think there is an element of that about it, you could have / should have won it - there is no guarentee having gone close, that you will kick on the following year.

Do you think he would walk? Can you afford to sack him?

United are spluttering, but prior to last weekend were 9 goals better off than this time last year, Chelsea should really have put some distance between themselves and the pack, IF United can get through the intouch and a few bodies start to become available - you never know.

He won't walk unless Torres goes I reackon the Yanks have the money to sack him but are waiting for the tide to turn so it looks like they are doing it in agreement of most Liverpool fans, they don't want to get more fans against them although they didn't make it into the ground last time.