: Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:22 pm  

John D H wrote:

Competitivness and standards are two different thinngs..

Now, more than one team has a chance of winning the comp, 15 years ago that was not the case. Hence the league is more competitive now.

So when, during our dominance, we won the league on points difference you're saying the team who scored as many league points as us were uncompetitive?

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:30 pm  

jinkin jimmy wrote:

So when, during our dominance, we won the league on points difference you're saying the team who scored as many league points as us were uncompetitive?

How many times?

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:31 pm  

John D H wrote:

How many times?

Answer the question!

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:55 pm  

jinkin jimmy wrote:

Answer the question!

Well without knowing how many times it happend, its difficult. But, judging by the fact that you won 8 titles in 9 years, and 8 CCs in a row and you (for a fair period anyway) were the only full time team in the country, where as now, we have 14 full-time teams, a salary cap, and over the last 9 years 3 teams have won SL, 4 teams have won the CC, and only 1 team has won back to back titles I'd say it is more competitive.

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:05 pm  

John D H wrote:

Well without knowing how many times it happend, its difficult. But, judging by the fact that you won 8 titles in 9 years, and 8 CCs in a row and you (for a fair period anyway) were the only full time team in the country, where as now, we have 14 full-time teams, a salary cap, and over the last 9 years 3 teams have won SL, 4 teams have won the CC, and only 1 team has won back to back titles I'd say it is more competitive.

You were full time before us pal!

Anyway, it's not difficult at all. We once only managed to win the league on points difference in an era when according to you no-one but Wigan had a chance of winning. Don't you see that just because Wigan had that success doesn't mean there weren't other top sides around at the time?

I can't be bothered to look it up but I would bet there has never been a 1, 2 dominance like you and Saints now have.

Still, all for the good of the game, eh?

[Pemps]

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:07 pm  

John D H wrote:

Well without knowing how many times it happend, its difficult. But, judging by the fact that you won 8 titles in 9 years, and 8 CCs in a row and you (for a fair period anyway) were the only full time team in the country, where as now, we have 14 full-time teams, a salary cap, and over the last 9 years 3 teams have won SL, 4 teams have won the CC, and only 1 team has won back to back titles I'd say it is more competitive.

You do know that Leeds were professional before us and Widnes weren't far behind, don't you?

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:16 pm  

you (for a fair period anyway) were the only full time team in the country,

I love this popular myth, wrong, but dont let that get in the way of a reason why clubs didnt turn pro when we did.

I dont ever recall Nasty Wigan making other teams stay part time!

It wasnt Wigans fault other clubs sold their players to us, they could have said no,

A guy in egypt offered me a camel for my girlfreind, i told him no simple! You dont have to sell just because someone offers!

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:30 pm  

Actually I was wrong earlier. We won the league in 92/3 from Saints on points diff then won again on points diff from both Bradford and Warrington in a 3 way tie a year later.

In the last 4 years there has been a Saints/Leeds 1, 2 at the top of the league. From 2008 going backwards they have finished 9&8, 5&4, 10&8 and 10&7 points above whoever was third.

But it's more competitve now, honest. Yeah, really. Anyone can win.

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:37 pm  

jinkin jimmy wrote:

Actually I was wrong earlier. We won the league in 92/3 from Saints on points diff then won again on points diff from both Bradford and Warrington in a 3 way tie a year later.

In the last 4 years there has been a Saints/Leeds 1, 2 at the top of the league. From 2008 going backwards they have finished 9&8, 5&4, 10&8 and 10&7 points above whoever was third.

But it's more competitve now, honest. Yeah, really. Anyone can win.

Maybe if at the end of the Year during those periods we had a Top 8 competition to decide who was the Best Maybe Wigan wouldn't have won 8 in 10/11 years would they as this would be a Knockout Comp!
Oh wait a minute we did, the Premiership! Now then How many clubs won that in those 10 years??
Oh Look - 5 different teams won it and a further 4 were in the Final !

League leaders 2005/2006/2007/2008 Saints!
Very Competitive!

GF winners in the last 10 years - 3 different teams!
Other teams int the Final - 2 different teams!

So Less different teams have made the SL Knockout Final over the last 10 years comapred to the Prem Final in the 10 years of our so called dominace!

Maybe if we had 1st past the post for the last 10 years Saints or Whoever may have won 10 in a row! Who Knows!

Lets take the CC!
Our period something like 3 different winners and - 7 different other finalists!

Last 10 years - 4 different winners and 3 different finalists!

Turn it into a Cup competion & you Can Influence/Manufacture a Competition were one doesnt really exist to the levels you think it does!

Seeing we finished 3rd last 2 x years & Saints fans think were crap what does that make teams 4 to 12! How does that make Super Duper League More Competitive?

As i said in a Bar on the Gold Coast after the World Cup Semi Final/Tournament Fiasco!
Us 12 can go outside and have a Competitive Game, It wouldn't mean we were any Good!

We have to stop searching for competitiveness and worry more about raising Excellence!

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:12 pm  

John D H wrote:

Competitivness and standards are two different thinngs..

Now, more than one team has a chance of winning the comp, 15 years ago that was not the case. Hence the league is more competitive now.

Jinkin Jimmy has already replied with a good post on this.

But I can't help but reply that even if you were right about the situation 15 years ago, I would rather have an uncompetitive league with one very strong team - at least we would stand some chance at international level - than a league with only mediocre and poor sides, which seems to be the way we are heading.

I would also say that it is still very early in the season - I have a feeling that by the end of the season the big clubs will be dominating as usual and the mythical level playing field will be as far off as ever.

The SL era has actually been a very poor one for small clubs finishing in the top 4 - if you look at the tables for the late 80s and early 90s you'll see that small clubs could and did finish in top positions far more often than they have since the SC came in.