Re: Rumours and signings v6 (inc Maguire Rumours) : Thu May 12, 2011 8:52 pm  

We have four props - Stuart Fielden, Jeff Lima, Paul Prescott and Lee Mossop. Plus possibly Gareth Hock. Eamon O'carroll will be like a new signing and then we have Dom Crosby and Ben Davies.

Re: Rumours and signings v6 (inc Maguire Rumours) : Thu May 12, 2011 9:15 pm  

cadoo wrote:

We have four props - Stuart Fielden, Jeff Lima, Paul Prescott and Lee Mossop. Plus possibly Gareth Hock. Eamon O'carroll will be like a new signing and then we have Dom Crosby and Ben Davies.

Do you know what i completely forgot about Mossop. I suppose i still think he is a 2nd rower.

Strange, especially as i have been very impressed with of late.

Cant believe that.

Still, take away the fact that we do have enough props. I feel my point is still valid

Re: Rumours and signings v6 (inc Maguire Rumours) : Thu May 12, 2011 9:25 pm  

tugglesf78 wrote:

Do you know what i completely forgot about Mossop. I suppose i still think he is a 2nd rower.

Strange, especially as i have been very impressed with of late.

Cant believe that.

Still, take away the fact that we do have enough props. I feel my point is still valid

I guess it demonstrates just how big a squad we have that you can forget certain players.

However your point is valid if Gareth Hock moves up to prop and Joel moves as expected to centre and Ryan Hoffman leaves that is also expected. Having just Harrison Hansen, Liam Farrell, Chris Tuson and Jack Hughes is not enough. I don't think we'll see Gareth Hock make the move to prop unless we're struggling badly with injuries. Even if one of the main four (Lima, Fielden, Prescott, Mossop) pick up an injury I think we'll see Dom Crosby or Ben Davies blooded. Two very talented young British props with so much potential. Also there's Eamon O'carroll to chuck into the mix.

When you look at it like that we're not looking too bad at prop.

Re: Rumours and signings v6 (inc Maguire Rumours) : Thu May 12, 2011 9:45 pm  

LovesToSpooge wrote:

True Arundel has looked good.

Arundel's a good example of a kid being given the chance to play centre after serving his apprenticeship over the last couple of years. Charnley will have served his apprenticeship this year and over the many games he got last year. Yet many fans on here would rather look overseas to a more expensive and riskier option to replace Carmont. Than the obvious and longterm option that is Charnley. Just for the record Josh looks as just a good player as Joe if not a little more hard to handle in the tackle.

I would love nothing more than to see one of our own homegrown players make the centre position their own and not have to sign an overseas player. I would be willing to invest the time and patience required to see us through long-term at centre. Joel Tomkins will most likely be our centre for next year. The lad has awesome potential there and is looking better every week. After a full season at centre (near enough) and a full pre-season behind him and I suspect a few England appearances there then I feel very confident we'll have an awesome centre on our hands. Joel is very big, powerful, but is also very quick & has an excellent fend. He also has very good hands to find the offload. He just needs to improve his decision-making and that will come in time. EVERY game though he causes teams problems. That pass on the inside for Charnley against Saints was awesome.

As for the other centre spot I think our hand may be forced into developing one of our own. The OOC centres in Super League are not good enough. I don't know any NRL centres that are available and will come over at the right price and are of the right quality. Ian Lenagan was right that the centre market is grim. We will probably have to invest in one of our own - which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It will just require a lot of patience from our fans/coaches. It's a hard position to make your own as we're seeing with Joel. Karl Pryce doesn't look anywhere near up to it defensively. He'll leave at the end of this season IMO. Darrell Goulding hasn't been given enough game and will be more used as utility IMO. Stefan Marsh just doesn't strike me as a player who has the potential to be a top class centre. He doesn't look up, doesn't find an offload or look to create space for his man. He needs to bulk up too.

The one lad who can make that spot his own is Josh Charnley. He's a big unit and is very, very quick. An excellent finisher and some of his passes back inside have been awesome (like that one for Carmont or Joel against Barrow) this suggests to me that he has the handling skills to put away his winger. Defensively he's outplayed Keith Senior at Hull KR and looked excellent in his short stint there. If Wigan are planning to ease him into the first team as a winger and then to gradually move him into the centres when the opportunity arises then I'm all for it. I would go with Joel and Josh as our centres for next year.

The important aspect for me is defence. If we can get Joel Tomkins' and Josh Charnley's defence up to scratch at centre then we'll be fine because the attack and decision-making will come with experience. Both will be awesome strike weapons and have some pace too!

A backline consisting of:

1. Matt Bowen
2. Amos Roberts/Darrell Goulding/Ryan King (one of those three)
3. Joel Tomkins
4. Josh Charnley
5. Pat Richards
6. Sam Tomkins
7. Brett Finch

There's a hell of a lot of strike power in there and I think I'd be right in saying that's one of the fastest backlines we've ever had (should it happen). With the centre market looking poor (as Ian Lenagan alluded too) then we could have to lineup like this. However I have to say after seeing this on paper, I don't think this is at all a bad thing. That backline looks awesome.

Re: Rumours and signings v6 (inc Maguire Rumours) : Thu May 12, 2011 10:36 pm  

cadoo wrote:

I would love nothing more than to see one of our own homegrown players make the centre position their own and not have to sign an overseas player. I would be willing to invest the time and patience required to see us through long-term at centre. Joel Tomkins will most likely be our centre for next year. The lad has awesome potential there and is looking better every week. After a full season at centre (near enough) and a full pre-season behind him and I suspect a few England appearances there then I feel very confident we'll have an awesome centre on our hands. Joel is very big, powerful, but is also very quick & has an excellent fend. He also has very good hands to find the offload. He just needs to improve his decision-making and that will come in time. EVERY game though he causes teams problems. That pass on the inside for Charnley against Saints was awesome.

As for the other centre spot I think our hand may be forced into developing one of our own. The OOC centres in Super League are not good enough. I don't know any NRL centres that are available and will come over at the right price and are of the right quality. Ian Lenagan was right that the centre market is grim. We will probably have to invest in one of our own - which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It will just require a lot of patience from our fans/coaches. It's a hard position to make your own as we're seeing with Joel. Karl Pryce doesn't look anywhere near up to it defensively. He'll leave at the end of this season IMO. Darrell Goulding hasn't been given enough game and will be more used as utility IMO. Stefan Marsh just doesn't strike me as a player who has the potential to be a top class centre. He doesn't look up, doesn't find an offload or look to create space for his man. He needs to bulk up too.

The one lad who can make that spot his own is Josh Charnley. He's a big unit and is very, very quick. An excellent finisher and some of his passes back inside have been awesome (like that one for Carmont or Joel against Barrow) this suggests to me that he has the handling skills to put away his winger. Defensively he's outplayed Keith Senior at Hull KR and looked excellent in his short stint there. If Wigan are planning to ease him into the first team as a winger and then to gradually move him into the centres when the opportunity arises then I'm all for it. I would go with Joel and Josh as our centres for next year.

The important aspect for me is defence. If we can get Joel Tomkins' and Josh Charnley's defence up to scratch at centre then we'll be fine because the attack and decision-making will come with experience. Both will be awesome strike weapons and have some pace too!

A backline consisting of:

1. Matt Bowen
2. Amos Roberts/Darrell Goulding/Ryan King (one of those three)
3. Joel Tomkins
4. Josh Charnley
5. Pat Richards
6. Sam Tomkins
7. Brett Finch

There's a hell of a lot of strike power in there and I think I'd be right in saying that's one of the fastest backlines we've ever had (should it happen). With the centre market looking poor (as Ian Lenagan alluded too) then we could have to lineup like this. However I have to say after seeing this on paper, I don't think this is at all a bad thing. That backline looks awesome.

Sorry I have been in London for a few days so just catching up - is there any definitive link to us going for Bowen or is this just our fans speculating that this would be a good signing?

Re: Rumours and signings v6 (inc Maguire Rumours) : Thu May 12, 2011 10:44 pm  

EastStandFaithful wrote:

Sorry I have been in London for a few days so just catching up - is there any definitive link to us going for Bowen or is this just our fans speculating that this would be a good signing?

No link between us and Bowen at all. Just naming prospective recruits for next season.

Matt Bowen is OOC though and has publically declared his interest in moving abroad and coming to Super League. If you scroll a couple of pages back I post the link with direct quotes (or you could just google 'Matt Bowen Super League').

Re: Rumours and signings v6 (inc Maguire Rumours) : Thu May 12, 2011 10:44 pm  

Sam has been arguably a better FB than 6. Gotta be careful not to panic sign when our current squad is good enough to win the SL.

Who's honestly good enough and possibly would sign?
Personally my list is short
Dobson (if the contract rumour is true)
Matt Cooper
Bowen

Even if Coley hangs up his boots I don't feel we need any more forwards

Prescott McM Fielden Mossop Lima Crosby Mossop Davies O Carroll
Hock Hansen Faz Tuson Hughes Lockers

Re: Rumours and signings v6 (inc Maguire Rumours) : Thu May 12, 2011 10:53 pm  

Last Son of Wigan wrote: Sam has been arguably a better FB than 6. Gotta be careful not to panic sign when our current squad is good enough to win the SL. Who's honestly good enough and possibly would sign? Personally my list is short Dobson (if the contract rumour is true) Matt Cooper Bowen Even if Coley hangs up his boots I don't feel we need any more forwards Prescott McM Fielden Mossop Lima Crosby Mossop Davies O Carroll Hock Hansen Faz Tuson Hughes Lockers The whole Michael Dobson situation is spurious to say the least. I think it would be highly unlikely for him to do a u-turn on Hull KR. http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/cooper-to-shun-super-league-to-stay-a-loyal-dragon-20110409-1d8gq.html Matt Cooper is poised to sign a new deal with the Dragons. It is believed he wants to remain a one club man. Matt Bowen on the other hand: http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_5370-super-league-move-interests-bowen.html http://stevemascord.com/2011/04/19/bowen-set-for-super-league/ Should a Super League club pick up Matt Bowen then it would be fantastic business. Look at the import full-backs that are currently plying their trade here such as Phelps, McGoldrick and Dorn, all who have had relative success in this competition. Anyone who watches the NRL wont need me to point out that Bowen is vastly superior to all of them, as well as being the right side of 30, unlike Hodgson, Schifcofske and Webb. SIGN -- HIM -- UP!!

Last Son of Wigan wrote: Sam has been arguably a better FB than 6. Gotta be careful not to panic sign when our current squad is good enough to win the SL. Who's honestly good enough and possibly would sign? Personally my list is short Dobson (if the contract rumour is true) Matt Cooper Bowen Even if Coley hangs up his boots I don't feel we need any more forwards Prescott McM Fielden Mossop Lima Crosby Mossop Davies O Carroll Hock Hansen Faz Tuson Hughes Lockers The whole Michael Dobson situation is spurious to say the least. I think it would be highly unlikely for him to do a u-turn on Hull KR. http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/cooper-to-shun-super-league-to-stay-a-loyal-dragon-20110409-1d8gq.html Matt Cooper is poised to sign a new deal with the Dragons. It is believed he wants to remain a one club man. Matt Bowen on the other hand: http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_5370-super-league-move-interests-bowen.html http://stevemascord.com/2011/04/19/bowen-set-for-super-league/ Should a Super League club pick up Matt Bowen then it would be fantastic business. Look at the import full-backs that are currently plying their trade here such as Phelps, McGoldrick and Dorn, all who have had relative success in this competition. Anyone who watches the NRL wont need me to point out that Bowen is vastly superior to all of them, as well as being the right side of 30, unlike Hodgson, Schifcofske and Webb. SIGN -- HIM -- UP!!

Re: Rumours and signings v6 (inc Maguire Rumours) : Thu May 12, 2011 11:00 pm  

cadoo wrote:

No link between us and Bowen at all. Just naming prospective recruits for next season.

Matt Bowen is OOC though and has publically declared his interest in moving abroad and coming to Super League. If you scroll a couple of pages back I post the link with direct quotes (or you could just google 'Matt Bowen Super League').

Ok thanks Cadoo.

Not seen much of him but he sounds like the sort of player we should be after.

Re: Rumours and signings v6 (inc Maguire Rumours) : Thu May 12, 2011 11:01 pm  

cadoo wrote:

Snip.

I agree with a lot of that, and I'm glad to see someone else agree's with me that Charnley should be our replacement for Carmont. I'm also with you on Joel continuing at centre beyond this season. I did have worry's that his departure from the backrow coupled with Hoffman's would leave us weakened there, but Hock returning to the backrow would cover those losses.

I do think Sam will remain at FB into 2012 and beyond. With the club operating a similar system to what we have now. Where by Finch and Leuluai would start at HB, with McIlorum at 9. And after 20 minutes or so McIlorum would go off for a rest, Leuluai would revert to 9 with Mellor coming off the bench to partner Finch at HB.

Marsh really impressed me to be honest. However not in the way I'd usually be impressed. When he first broke in to the first team he was a defensive frailty there's no doubt about it. But the way he improved his defense as the weeks progressed was astonishing. Now while I severely doubt he'll end up as a top quality centre. He would IMO make an excellent winger, and provide cover for a number of positions in the backline, in a similar vein to what Goulding currently does. But it's my opinion that Marsh can be a far superior player to Goulding, so that when Stephen does cover a certain position in the backline, it's more than just plugging a hole as I often feel happens when Goulding plays at centre.

I'm sure we will make a new signing or two. But I'm really struggling to think where the money could be best spent. I really want Wigan to get away from signing players that were only going have to replace again within a year or two.