Re: Hull FC (h) : Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:01 am  

Bibby is a solid pro who works hard and rarely lets anyone down. He’s consistently a 7/10 but doesn’t really offer anything more. He misses a bit of x-factor imo.

I’m keen to see Halsall get a run to see if he’s an option for next year and beyond.

Cust needs to play so he can work towards regaining match fitness, I think it was a mistake to play him for the full 80 last week but he won’t get fitness back without playing.

Re: Hull FC (h) : Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:21 am  

Jukesays wrote:

That's what I thought you'd say, and it wasn't a trick question.

The problem I have with it is that there are a number of observations I have with that situation before I even talk about Bibbys decision making.
We number up wrong on the blind, they have 2 players short side and we have 3 (you could argue 4 as Bateman is directly behind the ptb and Smith IMO is hiding a bit).
Being 1 man down and numbering up that way we're already 2 maybe 3 players short in the line.
I think Faz pushes up a bit and him and Partington seem to number up 2 on one which again leaves space,( it's more complicated than that as I think Partington is too passive, if he pushes up then I trust Smithies and Bateman inside to deal with inside runner).

Anyway, this is my big issue

After that ball Bibby finds himself 4 on 1, not just because of what's happened inside.
The comments made to me about Bibby rushing in, I counter with Where the hell is Marshall outside?

Hes 20 to 25mtrs behind the defensive line on the 3rd tackle !!!
It's likenhes playing full back, but Field is in the perfect FB spot, so what's he doing?

If Bibby doesn't rush in there's a 3 on zero outside him (I do agree rushing in May not be great), but where the hell is Marshall and why is he 25mtrs back on the 3rd, 20mtrs in field?

Also
Marshall was all over the place on the first Batchelor try.
Although I can just forgive him when they come short side and he comes in off his wing to suppprt Bibby (a bit Bibby esque) and gets beat outside by Bennison. He gets back after a Bibby tackle and they pin bennison 2ft from the touchline.
As he plays the ball Welsby is 1st receiver 11mtrs in from touch and Marshall goes walkabout chasing after Welsby inside and gets picked off and stranded without laying a finger on him. Bibby is also in trouble as he can see 2 runners back outside and he's practically 4 on 1.
Welsby turns back outside and we have a 3 on 1 to defend 7mtrs from touch

What's Marshall doing?

He reminded me of the younger Kid in the playgorund Marshall of 4/5 years ago on Saturday. Running around trying to solve problems that didn't exist instead of doing his job.

Anyway, probably over analysing and all with a backdrop of the players all being knackered due to the defensive efforts.
But I just think Bibby was unfairly singled out on that last play.

At the PTB he's exactly where I'd want him to be, Marshall on the other hand is miles away.

That’s certainly a more analytic view than my 10 pint deep brain managed on Saturday

I like Bibby. It wasn’t his best day but poor I’ll agree was over egging it. I’d like to see if Halsall can take his place and would give him a game but ultimately I expect Bibby and KPP will see the season out as our centres.

Marshall needs to get himself switched back on. It must have been a bit of a whirlwind few weeks. He needs to cut out the basic errors he’s making. In the semi and the final the big glory moments masked the basic errors he made taking the ball out. It’s been pretty uncharacteristic from him, as I’ve never seen handling errors as a huge issue. Defensively I think he’s really tried to make a mark this season, rushing out and bashing people but he was well off the mark on Saturday as you say. He’s plenty of money in the bank though and I wouldn’t leave him out.

Re: Hull FC (h) : Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:49 am  

That would be all good and well Jukesy, if it was a one off. Unfortunately it's something he does on a regular basis. Occasionally he gets his man but all too often he doesn't. There may have been extenuating circumstances last week, not least being down to 12 men, which lead to too many players trying to solve problems before they happened but Bibby does it when there's 13 men on the field and with everyone else in a good defensive position. I think deflecting blame in this one instance is papering over the problem.

Re: Hull FC (h) : Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:50 am  

Jukesays wrote:

NickyKiss wrote:

Poor might be pushing it thinking back. I thought he panicked on that last try and dashed in and that’s stuck in my mind probably. I’ve seen him play far better and be a lot busier in games. I like Bibby to be fair and have stuck up for him in the past. I’d say average was about right. I wanted him back in for Saturday and didn’t understand people’s teams with him not in there but I’d also like to look at Halsall and would give him a shot this week and KPP would be locked in to the other spot for the rest of the season for me. He needs a run of games there to get ready for the big games down the track.

That's what I thought you'd say, and it wasn't a trick question.

The problem I have with it is that there are a number of observations I have with that situation before I even talk about Bibbys decision making.
We number up wrong on the blind, they have 2 players short side and we have 3 (you could argue 4 as Bateman is directly behind the ptb and Smith IMO is hiding a bit).
Being 1 man down and numbering up that way we're already 2 maybe 3 players short in the line.
I think Faz pushes up a bit and him and Partington seem to number up 2 on one which again leaves space,( it's more complicated than that as I think Partington is too passive, if he pushes up then I trust Smithies and Bateman inside to deal with inside runner).

Anyway, this is my big issue

After that ball Bibby finds himself 4 on 1, not just because of what's happened inside.
The comments made to me about Bibby rushing in, I counter with Where the hell is Marshall outside?

Hes 20 to 25mtrs behind the defensive line on the 3rd tackle !!!
It's likenhes playing full back, but Field is in the perfect FB spot, so what's he doing?

If Bibby doesn't rush in there's a 3 on zero outside him (I do agree rushing in May not be great), but where the hell is Marshall and why is he 25mtrs back on the 3rd, 20mtrs in field?

Also
Marshall was all over the place on the first Batchelor try.
Although I can just forgive him when they come short side and he comes in off his wing to suppprt Bibby (a bit Bibby esque) and gets beat outside by Bennison. He gets back after a Bibby tackle and they pin bennison 2ft from the touchline.
As he plays the ball Welsby is 1st receiver 11mtrs in from touch and Marshall goes walkabout chasing after Welsby inside and gets picked off and stranded without laying a finger on him. Bibby is also in trouble as he can see 2 runners back outside and he's practically 4 on 1.
Welsby turns back outside and we have a 3 on 1 to defend 7mtrs from touch

What's Marshall doing?

He reminded me of the younger Kid in the playgorund Marshall of 4/5 years ago on Saturday. Running around trying to solve problems that didn't exist instead of doing his job.

Anyway, probably over analysing and all with a backdrop of the players all being knackered due to the defensive efforts.
But I just think Bibby was unfairly singled out on that last play.

At the PTB he's exactly where I'd want him to be, Marshall on the other hand is miles away.

Fair points Jukes - what on earth Marshall was doing on that last try Iv no idea. Whether he was told to do that by the coaches I'm not sure but I don't know what the function of it was, particularly when we were down a man.

Iv never been as big of a fan of Marshall as some - I just feel he cancels out his good stuff with his bad stuff. Two good finishes in the semi but two basic handling errors - one which really cost us. Good finish in the final but a poor one on one miss on Jerry McG in the corner. Poor error and rash defensive decisions on Saturday. Bilko and that other clown in commentary keep moaning he's not being considered for internationals - for me he's nowhere near that. He has to improve.

Re: Hull FC (h) : Thu Jul 14, 2022 11:33 am  

MadDogg wrote:

Fair points Jukes - what on earth Marshall was doing on that last try Iv no idea. Whether he was told to do that by the coaches I'm not sure but I don't know what the function of it was, particularly when we were down a man.

Iv never been as big of a fan of Marshall as some - I just feel he cancels out his good stuff with his bad stuff. Two good finishes in the semi but two basic handling errors - one which really cost us. Good finish in the final but a poor one on one miss on Jerry McG in the corner. Poor error and rash defensive decisions on Saturday. Bilko and that other clown in commentary keep moaning he's not being considered for internationals - for me he's nowhere near that. He has to improve.

I need to say I think he's a very good SL winger
International, mmmm, not yet for me

But

Hes become a far better player than I ever thought he would be, but like the old saying.
Your never as good as you think you are, and never as bad as they say you are.

Don't want it to be a witch hunt as I do think his positives Far outweigh his negatives, but he does have the simple mistakes in his game and on Saturday he went a bit Headless chicken at times.

As you say, only the coaches/players or Marshall himself will know why he was where he was for that last try, but with the 1st try im 100% sure no-one will have told him to go chasing 10mtrs inside on Welsby from a PTB on his wing and get nowhere near.

Re: Hull FC (h) : Thu Jul 14, 2022 11:37 am  

Phuzzy wrote:

That would be all good and well Jukesy, if it was a one off. Unfortunately it's something he does on a regular basis. Occasionally he gets his man but all too often he doesn't. There may have been extenuating circumstances last week, not least being down to 12 men, which lead to too many players trying to solve problems before they happened but Bibby does it when there's 13 men on the field and with everyone else in a good defensive position. I think deflecting blame in this one instance is papering over the problem.

I don't from a high level view point disagree
But it is something both our centres (whoever they are in any particular game) do.
Maybe they're told to defend that way in certain situations, maybe they aren't (I think it will be coached rather way otherwise they'd be dropped).

Bibbys going, and agree that Halsall needs game time at points this year to prepare for next year and beyond.
But I just think with his imminent departure a few will jump on the name calling bandwagon at every opportunity when it isn't always his doing etc.

Re: Hull FC (h) : Thu Jul 14, 2022 11:44 am  

Jukesays wrote:

I need to say I think he's a very good SL winger
International, mmmm, not yet for me

But

Hes become a far better player than I ever thought he would be, but like the old saying.
Your never as good as you think you are, and never as bad as they say you are.

Don't want it to be a witch hunt as I do think his positives Far outweigh his negatives, but he does have the simple mistakes in his game and on Saturday he went a bit Headless chicken at times.

As you say, only the coaches/players or Marshall himself will know why he was where he was for that last try, but with the 1st try im 100% sure no-one will have told him to go chasing 10mtrs inside on Welsby from a PTB on his wing and get nowhere near.

I think I would go into 'headless chicken' mode if as a winger I couldn't trust my centre.

Re: Hull FC (h) : Thu Jul 14, 2022 11:46 am  

MattyB wrote:

I think I would go into 'headless chicken' mode if as a winger I couldn't trust my centre.

OK
So just give me 1 explanation for each if those instances then?

Player rumoured to be leaving, blame him for everything
No mid point view, just extremes I.e. hes either world class or Awful.

Re: Hull FC (h) : Thu Jul 14, 2022 12:23 pm  

I don’t think Bibby takes anymore heat now we know he’s leaving than he did before. He’s always been a bit of a target IMO. He’s not particularly fashionable if you get what I mean. A lad who did pretty well for Salford but wasn’t a big name, who comes here and people sort of see as a budget signing. Overall I think he’s been a success and is a pretty good player but loads haven’t rated him from day one and still don’t. He is reasonably limited but I love his attitude and commitment.

Re: Hull FC (h) : Thu Jul 14, 2022 1:02 pm  

Anyone know if u can pay on the gate