[DaveO]

Re: Wane is out of contract : Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:22 pm  

hengirl wrote:

I agree he didn't give much pause for thought, still think he will be there next season I'd go as far as to say I'd be amazed if Wane isn't there next season to be honest the club seems in denial over the standard of play.

Same here. His statements were IMO a bit of a plea to let him try do it. As you say, no pause for thought. His virtually instantaneous solution was sign some more players. So much for a thorough investigation of what is required.

Re: Wane is out of contract : Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:12 am  

It would be a hard hearted person who would deny Wane the chance to put right what he has delivered this season. His record gives him enough credit in the bank to be given that chance.

But another repeat of this season will mean that it's a last chance saloon.

However it should be the last chance for many of the players. Bringing back Joel and Sam Tomkins has been a disaster. It has been difficult watching Sam, hoping against hope that what you are seeing in front of you just isn't so. He is clearly finished. Not the worst full back in the league by any stretch but miles away from when he was peerless. His status as marquee player just cannot be justified. Joel's knees are knackered. He is finished. Very sad also, but again a very highly paid player we cannot justify any longer.

Just what is Micky Mac for any longer? Capable only of winding the opposition up, and not very good at that either. I want a hooker like Danny Houghton, able to play the whole game who tackles forever and is a decent runner and passer.

The props need supplementing. Sutton just hasn't come on. FPN has been steady nothing more. A far cry from Walmsley and Hill for example.

Tommy has been a disaster. Absolutely useless with ball in hand and worse at kicking.

So all of those high earners need replacing in my view.

We still have the best back row and Lockers must play on for at least another year, simply irreplaceable. After that I'd say every single player's reputation has suffered. Joe Burgess has been poor, although playing him at centre was just unfair on the lad. Gelling has been inconsistent. Gildart did well to return from a horrific injury, but he was average, no better.

Lastly Williams. Hasn't justified his wages IMO. However there are mitigating circumstances. He got no help from his scrum half. At times he was our only attacking threat. And the pressure told in the end.

So all in all, lots for Wane to do. I'd say we need a new full back, we need Manfredi back, we need a scrum half, we need two new props and a hooker.

Time for Mr Lenegan to splash the cash instead of looking at ridiculous jaunts to Australia, get back to basics, build a new team that can play exciting rugby. I have my doubts whether Waney can deliver too, but I think it would be wrong to replace him now. As I said give him the chance to put it right.

[TimperleySaint]

Re: Wane is out of contract : Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:29 am  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

It would be a hard hearted person who would deny Wane the chance to put right what he has delivered this season. His record gives him enough credit in the bank to be given that chance.

But another repeat of this season will mean that it's a last chance saloon.

However it should be the last chance for many of the players. Bringing back Joel and Sam Tomkins has been a disaster. It has been difficult watching Sam, hoping against hope that what you are seeing in front of you just isn't so. He is clearly finished. Not the worst full back in the league by any stretch but miles away from when he was peerless. His status as marquee player just cannot be justified. Joel's knees are knackered. He is finished. Very sad also, but again a very highly paid player we cannot justify any longer.

Just what is Micky Mac for any longer? Capable only of winding the opposition up, and not very good at that either. I want a hooker like Danny Houghton, able to play the whole game who tackles forever and is a decent runner and passer.

The props need supplementing. Sutton just hasn't come on. FPN has been steady nothing more. A far cry from Walmsley and Hill for example.

Tommy has been a disaster. Absolutely useless with ball in hand and worse at kicking.

So all of those high earners need replacing in my view.

We still have the best back row and Lockers must play on for at least another year, simply irreplaceable. After that I'd say every single player's reputation has suffered. Joe Burgess has been poor, although playing him at centre was just unfair on the lad. Gelling has been inconsistent. Gildart did well to return from a horrific injury, but he was average, no better.

Lastly Williams. Hasn't justified his wages IMO. However there are mitigating circumstances. He got no help from his scrum half. At times he was our only attacking threat. And the pressure told in the end.

So all in all, lots for Wane to do. I'd say we need a new full back, we need Manfredi back, we need a scrum half, we need two new props and a hooker.

Time for Mr Lenegan to splash the cash instead of looking at ridiculous jaunts to Australia, get back to basics, build a new team that can play exciting rugby. I have my doubts whether Waney can deliver too, but I think it would be wrong to replace him now. As I said give him the chance to put it right.

The question will be is where are Wigan going to get the money from in order to get those players you say are needed? Surely you must be there or thereabouts with regards to the salary cap, and without paying off the players you say are finished (unless their contracts are up) you aren't going to get any money in for them as far as a transfer fee, so where is the money coming from?

No NRL player(s) at the peak of their game is going to come over to the UK because they can earn far more staying in Oz, and lets be honest, there are no English world class players any more to take from this country, we just aren't producing them.

I'd say most clubs in the league would want to get rid of the deadwood in their ranks, but limited talent and spending money just don't allow it to be done - hence the poor quality in most teams this year.

Re: Wane is out of contract : Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:46 am  

Mike Oxlong wrote:

The question will be is where are Wigan going to get the money from in order to get those players you say are needed? Surely you must be there or thereabouts with regards to the salary cap, and without paying off the players you say are finished (unless their contracts are up) you aren't going to get any money in for them as far as a transfer fee, so where is the money coming from?

No NRL player(s) at the peak of their game is going to come over to the UK because they can earn far more staying in Oz, and lets be honest, there are no English world class players any more to take from this country, we just aren't producing them.

I'd say most clubs in the league would want to get rid of the deadwood in their ranks, but limited talent and spending money just don't allow it to be done - hence the poor quality in most teams this year.

I would say that we need to get rid of Sam Tomkins, Joel Tomkins, Leuluai, Nuuausala, Sutton and McIlorum. All high earners which creates plenty of room on the cap.

Now, people will say that those players don't need to move and will be difficult to get rid of. But they are professional sportsmen. They should be told you are not in the first 17 next season. If you're happy with that then stay but if you aren't we will find a club for you. Most professional sportsmen want to play.

The team needs an overhaul, and in my view the squad with the exception of Bateman, Farrell and O'Loughlin have been complacent, expecting the name Wigan to just be enough to win games. It's been a massive wake up call this season. The whole club needs to focus on one thing only, winning games. Of course it doesn't help getting the season off to a winning start when you play your first home game 10,000 miles away which is utterly barmy.

Re: Wane is out of contract : Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:48 am  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

So all in all, lots for Wane to do. I'd say we need a new full back, we need Manfredi back, we need a scrum half, we need two new props and a hooker.

Why? What's wrong with Escare?

Re: Wane is out of contract : Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:50 am  

goobervision wrote:

Why? What's wrong with Escare?

The cracks were starting to appear before he got injured. His last couple of games showed his true form IMO. Not good enough.

[TimperleySaint]

Re: Wane is out of contract : Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:54 am  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

I would say that we need to get rid of Sam Tomkins, Joel Tomkins, Leuluai, Nuuausala, Sutton and McIlorum. All high earners which creates plenty of room on the cap.

Now, people will say that those players don't need to move and will be difficult to get rid of. But they are professional sportsmen. They should be told you are not in the first 17 next season. If you're happy with that then stay but if you aren't we will find a club for you. Most professional sportsmen want to play.

The team needs an overhaul, and in my view the squad with the exception of Bateman, Farrell and O'Loughlin have been complacent, expecting the name Wigan to just be enough to win games. It's been a massive wake up call this season. The whole club needs to focus on one thing only, winning games. Of course it doesn't help getting the season off to a winning start when you play your first home game 10,000 miles away which is utterly barmy.

But that is my point, where are you going to get rid of them too?

If they are playing as poorly as is being made out, no other club is going to come in and pay a fee for them, and pay the wages they will be earning at Wigan. And unless they are out of contract, no player in this day and age (it can be a short career, so I don't blame them) is going to agree to taking a cut in their salary based on a poor to average performance the season before. And if they are in contract, it will cost you money to break that contract and pay them off - so the only way to do it is if everyone is one a 1 year contract, but players or clubs will never accept that because they want security.

Re: Wane is out of contract : Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:02 am  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

I would say that we need to get rid of Sam Tomkins, Joel Tomkins, Leuluai, Nuuausala, Sutton and McIlorum. All high earners which creates plenty of room on the cap.

Now, people will say that those players don't need to move and will be difficult to get rid of. But they are professional sportsmen. They should be told you are not in the first 17 next season. If you're happy with that then stay but if you aren't we will find a club for you. Most professional sportsmen want to play.

The team needs an overhaul, and in my view the squad with the exception of Bateman, Farrell and O'Loughlin have been complacent, expecting the name Wigan to just be enough to win games. It's been a massive wake up call this season. The whole club needs to focus on one thing only, winning games. Of course it doesn't help getting the season off to a winning start when you play your first home game 10,000 miles away which is utterly barmy.

You can't just do that though. If a player's contract is going to be "cut short" then there will be a pay off. Any payment made on termination of the contract will count towards the salary cap. The only way around this is if a player agrees to leave for nothing. Never going to happen.

If a player has say 12 months left on his contract he is going to want the bulk of that paying to him. Irrespective of the fact that he may get a contract elsewhere. There may be a deal to be done but the player could simply dig his heels in. He will hold all the aces as he knows that the club need to get rid so that they can bring someone else in.

Re: Wane is out of contract : Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:06 am  

Mike Oxlong wrote:

But that is my point, where are you going to get rid of them too?

If they are playing as poorly as is being made out, no other club is going to come in and pay a fee for them, and pay the wages they will be earning at Wigan. And unless they are out of contract, no player in this day and age (it can be a short career, so I don't blame them) is going to agree to taking a cut in their salary based on a poor to average performance the season before. And if they are in contract, it will cost you money to break that contract and pay them off - so the only way to do it is if everyone is one a 1 year contract, but players or clubs will never accept that because they want security.

Yes I understand what you are saying. But my point is this - you sit the player down you tell him he isn't in the first 17. He has a choice whether to collect his wages and not play or to move on to play but on lower wages.

I'm certain that there would be a queue of clubs willing to take a punt on Sam Tomkins, believing that that they could get the best out of him. Of course we know that our eyes are not deceiving us, he really is finished, but I'll bet that Warrington would take him and pay him well too.

Any club would take McIlorum (apart from Leeds and Hull who don't need him). Sutton would get a gig somewhere, probably Salford. FPN can go back home where his reputation would probably get him a better contract actually. I doubt anyone would want Leuluai to be honest so we might keep him as reserve hooker.

[DaveO]

Re: Wane is out of contract : Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:43 am  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

It would be a hard hearted person who would deny Wane the chance to put right what he has delivered this season. His record gives him enough credit in the bank to be given that chance.

Do you want the blindingly obvious issues fixed or do you want to be nice to Wane?

He knows as any coach does past glories don't guarantee your job when the wheels come off. Ask Smith, Hasler and Madge.