Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:29 pm  

From the Rumour Mill.

Smith to go on-loan?

Bradford Bulls are apparently trying to strike up a deal with Wigan to take their young halfback Harry Smith on-loan.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:42 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

That's surprising, I wonder why he went there and not one of the NCL sides? I know there are at least a couple of good NCL sides there in Normanton and Cas Lock Lane

Looks like drinking buddies.

Signing announced as a great player but a better drinker.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:40 pm  

jonh wrote:

Looks like drinking buddies.

Signing announced as a great player but a better drinker.

Fair enough as long as he's happy. I do wonder how many players in the NCL, or not playing the game at all, could have been had great careers if we had a better system in place. We're already facing the barrier of having 1/5 of the population of Australia to pick from, without throwing away a lot of the talented players we do manage to unearth before they are fully grown. I'm not saying he would have spearheaded us to a World Cup, but the more of these lads you throw away at 18, the more chance we have that we've made a fatal mistake without ever knowing it.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:08 am  

jonh wrote:

Another more bizarre “signing” I noticed today was Lewis Heckford signing up to play pub rugby in the Wakefield amateur league for Westgate.

Quite some fall from grace for a lad of 23. His career never recovered from him the allocations and investigation that was levelled against him whilst at Wigan.

I must have missed this, what allegations?

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:29 am  

sergeant pepper wrote:

Bagged a few England caps (6), but never stood out. He played for strong Bath and Wasps sides too, but didn't win anything.

Probably made some decent cash tho.

This argument is always put forward when RL fans wonder about ex-RL players' less than glittering careers in RU.

And there are so many of those now to pick from.

Would Eastmond not have made decent cash if he'd stayed with Saints, or transferred to Leeds when he was still young, or had gone to the NRL? In all those cases, he'd also have maintained his reputation and would have had a decent career to look back on when it was over.

Joel Tomkins was the best athlete at Wigan and destined for a long future of England and GB appearances. I'm sure the Union carrot was huge, but I still wonder if he now asks himself was it worth it. He hardly set the Union world on fire and has been a shadow of his former self since returning. But hey, he's probably got a bit more money in the bank than he would have done had he stayed at Wigan (though given his rising status at the time, he'd have been able to command plenty for his next RL contract).

One answer I'm often given when I raise this issue is 'why not go to an easier game and coin it?'. Well ... yeah, that would work for people of a certain inclination. But I continually ask myself if some of these guys, once they're retired, would also like to have had a career that they're proud of.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:53 am  

100% Warrior wrote:

I must have missed this, what allegations?

It's pretty bad stuff, maybe best not to breathe new life into them if he was never found guilty.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:14 am  

Cruncher wrote:

This argument is always put forward when RL fans wonder about ex-RL players' less than glittering careers in RU.

And there are so many of those now to pick from.

Would Eastmond not have made decent cash if he'd stayed with Saints, or transferred to Leeds when he was still young, or had gone to the NRL? In all those cases, he'd also have maintained his reputation and would have had a decent career to look back on when it was over.

Joel Tomkins was the best athlete at Wigan and destined for a long future of England and GB appearances. I'm sure the Union carrot was huge, but I still wonder if he now asks himself was it worth it. He hardly set the Union world on fire and has been a shadow of his former self since returning. But hey, he's probably got a bit more money in the bank than he would have done had he stayed at Wigan (though given his rising status at the time, he'd have been able to command plenty for his next RL contract).

One answer I'm often given when I raise this issue is 'why not go to an easier game and coin it?'. Well ... yeah, that would work for people of a certain inclination. But I continually ask myself if some of these guys, once they're retired, would also like to have had a career that they're proud of.

Having a career you're proud of won't pay the bills though will it? It's a career that ultimately could end the next game you play and won't see you out until you're 65 (unless you move into coaching) so I have no issues with players "chasing the coin" and I am pretty sure that 99% of us would move to another job if they offered more money for the same/similar role.

The benefits of a career in RU are miles bigger also. If you do make a go of it, the International game is massive. Look at Robinson with the Lions. Andy Farrell is now coach of Ireland RU earning far more than he would have done as England RL coach and actually has a role that challenges him, and that's another carrot. These players as athletes, professionals etc want to challenge themselves. They could sit it out in league and make a decent wage or they could challenge themselves and make an even better wage. It's like a footballer playing in Scotland. He could stay there and score 20+ a season at Rangers/Celtic or he could move to the PL and see how good he really is.

If it doesn't work out (it usually doesn't because the two games aren't even remotely similar) then fair enough.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:24 am  

Cruncher wrote:

This argument is always put forward when RL fans wonder about ex-RL players' less than glittering careers in RU.

And there are so many of those now to pick from.

Would Eastmond not have made decent cash if he'd stayed with Saints, or transferred to Leeds when he was still young, or had gone to the NRL? In all those cases, he'd also have maintained his reputation and would have had a decent career to look back on when it was over.

Joel Tomkins was the best athlete at Wigan and destined for a long future of England and GB appearances. I'm sure the Union carrot was huge, but I still wonder if he now asks himself was it worth it. He hardly set the Union world on fire and has been a shadow of his former self since returning. But hey, he's probably got a bit more money in the bank than he would have done had he stayed at Wigan (though given his rising status at the time, he'd have been able to command plenty for his next RL contract).

One answer I'm often given when I raise this issue is 'why not go to an easier game and coin it?'. Well ... yeah, that would work for people of a certain inclination. But I continually ask myself if some of these guys, once they're retired, would also like to have had a career that they're proud of.

I can't stand union but I'd imagine if Joel hadn't tried union he could equally sit watching England RU in front of a sell out Twickenham and think to himself 'if only I had given Union a go'. I think you're probably downplaying the salary difference as well, I don't have exact numbers but I doubt we're just talking about a few grand per year. Joel has won the Grand Final (twice), Challenge Cup and World Club Challenge too so I'm sure he'll be proud of of his career when he retires.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:37 am  

Egg Chasing wrote:

Having a career you're proud of won't pay the bills though will it? It's a career that ultimately could end the next game you play and won't see you out until you're 65 (unless you move into coaching) so I have no issues with players "chasing the coin" and I am pretty sure that 99% of us would move to another job if they offered more money for the same/similar role.

The benefits of a career in RU are miles bigger also. If you do make a go of it, the International game is massive. Look at Robinson with the Lions. Andy Farrell is now coach of Ireland RU earning far more than he would have done as England RL coach and actually has a role that challenges him, and that's another carrot. These players as athletes, professionals etc want to challenge themselves. They could sit it out in league and make a decent wage or they could challenge themselves and make an even better wage. It's like a footballer playing in Scotland. He could stay there and score 20+ a season at Rangers/Celtic or he could move to the PL and see how good he really is.

If it doesn't work out (it usually doesn't because the two games aren't even remotely similar) then fair enough.

No real arguments with any of this, though I would apply the bit I've underlined to going to the NRL, not going to RU.

I've played both sports - as have many on here no doubt, so I'm not claiming exclusive knowledge - but it was only after switching from RU to RL that I found out how good I was (or wasn't).

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:48 am  

Cruncher wrote:

No real arguments with any of this, though I would apply the bit I've underlined to going to the NRL, not going to RU.

I've played both sports - as have many on here no doubt, so I'm not claiming exclusive knowledge - but it was only after switching from RU to RL that I found out how good I was (or wasn't).

Couple of years ago was talking about RL V RU with a young lad who had just finished Uni after being at public school where he played RU... He said "The RL players there were different to us, when we were sleeping off hangovers, they were training". Proves nothing, but made us both chuckle at the time.