Re: What can we learn from playing Saints : Sun May 08, 2022 7:18 pm  

Control the controllables - they're too good to keep giving them cheap ball which we did too often again yesterday (pretty sure the dropped ball from Marshall was the reason he didn't even celebrate his try).

I think the next step for this team is to become solid with the basics across the 80 minutes - less dropped ball, less penalties. Do that and watch us go - we'll have far more in the tank.

Re: What can we learn from playing Saints : Sun May 08, 2022 7:19 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

The grinders I’d call them nowadays. So tough to beat and effort and intensity can be entertaining in it’s way but they’re certainly not in keeping with a traditional Saints side. They don’t blow teams away and they were due a big game defeat. We should’ve got them in the 2020 GF and Catalans could’ve done so in 2021. If you can match them in the effort areas you’re a chance.

Yesterday was gut wrenching and I’m still not over it now to be honest. I have a degree of sympathy for how Wigan fans felt after the 2020 GF.

However I do think there is now a feeling of some Wigan fans (not you in fairness NK as you are probably one of the more balanced Wigan fans on here) now thinking that you suddenly know how to beat us. I’m actually more confident than ever of making it 4 in a row.

We played our worst 40 mins of the season yesterday and Wigan took full advantage. We kicked out on the full, we were caught in possession on the 5th tackle twice, Knowles even kicked it dead for a 7 tackle restart. Uncharacteristic errors. I don’t think we’ll concede a try like Farrells for another 3 years.

Wigan scored when we were down to 12.

We had a lad playing his 3rd ever first team game in a pivotal position and Lomax with a torn bicep. Makinson was a passenger for 20 mins.

Even with all that adversity it took an interception for you to win the game.

Now this isn’t to not give Wigan any credit. Peet has done a fantastic job and you played well. You got us in a one off game but as I’ve said before your injuries helped you. TL plays instead of Smith yesterday and you lose that game.

Woolf and the players have a lot of credit in the bank but he got that wrong yesterday in the first half. Trying to protect Lomax backfired massively. Welsby was asked to play two positions and struggled. In the second half when Lomax got his hands on the ball more you could see the difference.

The gap between us is closing no doubt but there’s still a decent gap and that game yesterday doesn’t change that much.

You can’t expect me to wish you luck in the Final as the other way round I wouldn’t expect anything less than Wigan fans being Hudds fans for the day.

Enjoy your day out and without a doubt a strong Wigan is good for the game but comments like us being found out or nowhere near as good as we think we are are way off the mark.

Re: What can we learn from playing Saints : Sun May 08, 2022 7:22 pm  

[Gareth] wrote:

You can and should learn something from every game. What i would take away from the game yesterday is that, while Saints are still the benchmark, take a player or 2 out of their side and when Walmsley has a quiet game they aren't as good as their fans think they are

However, i do believe we where lucky in the end after a bad second half and i think Saints are still massive favourites for the GF

I agree you can and should learn from every game,but they lost so they need to learn more to win against us now.

I dont think they are massive favourites for the grand final as I believe in Wigan and we have just won a massive game (we learned enough from good Friday )

Re: What can we learn from playing Saints : Sun May 08, 2022 7:25 pm  

Jason65 wrote:

I agree you can and should learn from every game,but they lost so they need to learn more to win against us now.

I dont think they are massive favourites for the grand final as I believe in Wigan and we have just won a massive game (we learned enough from good Friday )

You serious?

You’ve won 3 in 14 against us and we need to learn how to win against you

I’ll tell you what I’ll do. If we meet in the GF we’ll have a decent bet on it and the loser gives to Charity. That ok?

Re: What can we learn from playing Saints : Sun May 08, 2022 7:26 pm  

Stu M wrote:

You serious?

You’ve won 3 in 14 against us and we need to learn how to win against you

I’ll tell you what I’ll do. If we meet in the GF we’ll have a decent bet on it and the loser gives to Charity. That ok?

go for it ,I have just won £50 against a friend of mine who is a Saints fan.

Re: What can we learn from playing Saints : Sun May 08, 2022 7:34 pm  

Stu M wrote:

Yesterday was gut wrenching and I’m still not over it now to be honest. I have a degree of sympathy for how Wigan fans felt after the 2020 GF.

However I do think there is now a feeling of some Wigan fans (not you in fairness NK as you are probably one of the more balanced Wigan fans on here) now thinking that you suddenly know how to beat us. I’m actually more confident than ever of making it 4 in a row.

We played our worst 40 mins of the season yesterday and Wigan took full advantage. We kicked out on the full, we were caught in possession on the 5th tackle twice, Knowles even kicked it dead for a 7 tackle restart. Uncharacteristic errors. I don’t think we’ll concede a try like Farrells for another 3 years.

Wigan scored when we were down to 12.

We had a lad playing his 3rd ever first team game in a pivotal position and Lomax with a torn bicep. Makinson was a passenger for 20 mins.

Even with all that adversity it took an interception for you to win the game.

Now this isn’t to not give Wigan any credit. Peet has done a fantastic job and you played well. You got us in a one off game but as I’ve said before your injuries helped you. TL plays instead of Smith yesterday and you lose that game.

Woolf and the players have a lot of credit in the bank but he got that wrong yesterday in the first half. Trying to protect Lomax backfired massively. Welsby was asked to play two positions and struggled. In the second half when Lomax got his hands on the ball more you could see the difference.

The gap between us is closing no doubt but there’s still a decent gap and that game yesterday doesn’t change that much.

You can’t expect me to wish you luck in the Final as the other way round I wouldn’t expect anything less than Wigan fans being Hudds fans for the day.

Enjoy your day out and without a doubt a strong Wigan is good for the game but comments like us being found out or nowhere near as good as we think we are are way off the mark.

I absolutely have you as overwhelming favourites for the LLS and the GF. I don’t call you a grinding team as an insult. It’s an NRL style you play and the effort and energy areas are Saints real strengths and teams struggle to go with you. What we do have is some strike weapons in us and that’ll always make us dangerous in games ‘if’ we can go with that Saints intensity.

Re: What can we learn from playing Saints : Sun May 08, 2022 7:38 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

I absolutely have you as overwhelming favourites for the LLS and the GF. I don’t call you a grinding team as an insult. It’s an NRL style you play and the effort and energy areas are Saints real strengths and teams struggle to go with you. What we do have is some strike weapons in us and that’ll always make us dangerous in games ‘if’ we can go with that Saints intensity.

Agreed. You have something that we don’t and that is genuine pace. However (and get ready for the blue touch paper) I don’t rate Field like lots do. Blistering pace and great balance but in 3 games against Saints and Catalans he’s scored a simple try from a lovely TL pass and that’s it. His tackle on Hurrell was impressive however he was weak with Roby’s try and dropped a couple of bombs under pressure. I’d take Farrell every day of the week over him and wouldn’t swap him for Welsby.

I actually think he’s a bit of a flat track bully.

This isn’t meant to be Wigan bashing as I think Cust is developing into a very good player and Havard is the closest thing I’ve seen to Luke Thompson at his best. Byrne is also going well and I like the lad O Neill at 9.

Re: What can we learn from playing Saints : Sun May 08, 2022 7:55 pm  

Stu M wrote:

Yesterday was gut wrenching and I’m still not over it now to be honest. I have a degree of sympathy for how Wigan fans felt after the 2020 GF.

However I do think there is now a feeling of some Wigan fans (not you in fairness NK as you are probably one of the more balanced Wigan fans on here) now thinking that you suddenly know how to beat us. I’m actually more confident than ever of making it 4 in a row.

We played our worst 40 mins of the season yesterday and Wigan took full advantage. We kicked out on the full, we were caught in possession on the 5th tackle twice, Knowles even kicked it dead for a 7 tackle restart. Uncharacteristic errors. I don’t think we’ll concede a try like Farrells for another 3 years.

Wigan scored when we were down to 12.

We had a lad playing his 3rd ever first team game in a pivotal position and Lomax with a torn bicep. Makinson was a passenger for 20 mins.

Even with all that adversity it took an interception for you to win the game.

Now this isn’t to not give Wigan any credit. Peet has done a fantastic job and you played well. You got us in a one off game but as I’ve said before your injuries helped you. TL plays instead of Smith yesterday and you lose that game.

Woolf and the players have a lot of credit in the bank but he got that wrong yesterday in the first half. Trying to protect Lomax backfired massively. Welsby was asked to play two positions and struggled. In the second half when Lomax got his hands on the ball more you could see the difference.

The gap between us is closing no doubt but there’s still a decent gap and that game yesterday doesn’t change that much.

You can’t expect me to wish you luck in the Final as the other way round I wouldn’t expect anything less than Wigan fans being Hudds fans for the day.

Enjoy your day out and without a doubt a strong Wigan is good for the game but comments like us being found out or nowhere near as good as we think we are are way off the mark.

Agree with a lot of this, although to be fair I don't think you'll get any more than a small minority who think that you've been found out. I think most (like Peet) still have you as the benchmark, but are pleased that we can now at least beat you in a one off game.

I accept too that Saints' injury issues played a part, but I'm not having for a second that our missing players ended up helping us. Smith had a great game with the ball in hand - O'Neill was good too - but Powell and Tommy are two of the best defenders in the league in their positions. With them in the side we might not even have been talking about a Saints comeback in the first place.

I also think that the 'Wigan scored when we were down to 12' thing ignores the fact that Batchelor was sin binned in the act of preventing a likely try on the next play.

I think you're right to be confident about coming out on top at OT though. You're still the better team with many more players either in or entering their prime, whereas Wigan's squad is a bit earlier in its development. The one caveat is that generally you've had a pretty good run on the injury front for the last few seasons. Losing Dodd is obviously a huge blow and I think one thing that yesterday showed is that your dominant pack won't always make up for a drop in quality in the halves, so you're probably only one more serious injury away from becoming a much more fallible team.

Re: What can we learn from playing Saints : Sun May 08, 2022 7:56 pm  

Stu M wrote:

Yesterday was gut wrenching and I’m still not over it now to be honest. I have a degree of sympathy for how Wigan fans felt after the 2020 GF.

However I do think there is now a feeling of some Wigan fans (not you in fairness NK as you are probably one of the more balanced Wigan fans on here) now thinking that you suddenly know how to beat us. I’m actually more confident than ever of making it 4 in a row.

We played our worst 40 mins of the season yesterday and Wigan took full advantage. We kicked out on the full, we were caught in possession on the 5th tackle twice, Knowles even kicked it dead for a 7 tackle restart. Uncharacteristic errors. I don’t think we’ll concede a try like Farrells for another 3 years.

Wigan scored when we were down to 12.

We had a lad playing his 3rd ever first team game in a pivotal position and Lomax with a torn bicep. Makinson was a passenger for 20 mins.

Even with all that adversity it took an interception for you to win the game.

Now this isn’t to not give Wigan any credit. Peet has done a fantastic job and you played well. You got us in a one off game but as I’ve said before your injuries helped you. TL plays instead of Smith yesterday and you lose that game.

Woolf and the players have a lot of credit in the bank but he got that wrong yesterday in the first half. Trying to protect Lomax backfired massively. Welsby was asked to play two positions and struggled. In the second half when Lomax got his hands on the ball more you could see the difference.

The gap between us is closing no doubt but there’s still a decent gap and that game yesterday doesn’t change that much.

You can’t expect me to wish you luck in the Final as the other way round I wouldn’t expect anything less than Wigan fans being Hudds fans for the day.

Enjoy your day out and without a doubt a strong Wigan is good for the game but comments like us being found out or nowhere near as good as we think we are are way off the mark.

I wouldn't say you were 'found out' - just beaten by the better team on the day. In terms of being 'nowhere near as good as we think we are' that would depend on who 'we' refers to. There are definitely a proportion of Saints fans out there who thought this team could not be stopped at all this year. The Saints fans who have a sense of perspective will probably think what Matty Peet thinks about St Helens - still the benchmark team, a great side but beatable in a one off contest. You should be confident of 4 in a row - you're still favourites and will be favourites against us next time we play.

I do find other parts of your post illogical though. You're basically saying you were architects of your own downfall and if we'd done XYZ different we'd have won. So are you saying in the next game you will fix up all the areas that let you down (with no failures in any other areas) but Wigan won't do anything to fix up the areas that let them down? You mention kicks out on the full, getting caught on the 6th tackle. Could we not point to basic errors from Marshall, Cust, Byrne, Smith, Bateman etc? Offside a bunch of times? Is there not a lot of untapped potential in our side as well?

In any one game you will get some things right and some things wrong.

You played Lomax with a torn bicep. Youre apparently planning to do the same for the rest of the year. Is that because your squad depth isnt good enough? Maybe your salary cap is a little top heavy. Wigan scored when you were down to 12? Was it not your fault you were down to 12 because of a break down in atrack? Are coaching decisions not a part of your performance? That's not 'adversity' - you just got more things wrong than we did.

Re: What can we learn from playing Saints : Sun May 08, 2022 7:58 pm  

Stu M wrote:

Agreed. You have something that we don’t and that is genuine pace. However (and get ready for the blue touch paper) I don’t rate Field like lots do. Blistering pace and great balance but in 3 games against Saints and Catalans he’s scored a simple try from a lovely TL pass and that’s it. His tackle on Hurrell was impressive however he was weak with Roby’s try and dropped a couple of bombs under pressure. I’d take Farrell every day of the week over him and wouldn’t swap him for Welsby.

I actually think he’s a bit of a flat track bully.

This isn’t meant to be Wigan bashing as I think Cust is developing into a very good player and Havard is the closest thing I’ve seen to Luke Thompson at his best. Byrne is also going well and I like the lad O Neill at 9.

He hardly walked in on Good Friday to be fair to him, so I certainly wouldn’t call it simple. Not many players in the league score it. I’ve said on another thread you can’t judge a lad in huge games on not walking in 2 or 3 length of the field try’s because those chances just don’t come around in those games. Flip it around and Welsby himself didn’t have the best of days. The Hurrell tackle is absolutely mammoth in the context of the game, with it coming at 4-0. He was a Lomax ankle tap away from sealing it, with what would’ve been a sensational try in the last few minutes as well.

I don’t think we’ll be putting the offer of a swap for Welsby on the table anyway, so I wouldn’t worry If it’s that easy running in length of the field try’s against everyone bar Saints, maybe Welsby and co could give it a whirl

It’s all good anyway. That game yesterday is great for this season and the future. It’s rare you get both Wigan and Saints firing at the same time but hopefully we’re entering a period where we can play out some epic Derby games and really build that type of rivalry you get between two top sides every so often. Not just a Derby rivalry but an intense battle for one and two, like you guys had with Leeds for all those years. We’re not there yet but we’re improving.