Re: St.Helens : Sat Oct 02, 2021 8:38 am  

jonh wrote:

It’s no coincidence the 2 teams heading to Old Trafford look like they are playing in Fast Forward compared to all the other SL teams.

Power and pace in SL makes you competitive.

That’s exactly how it looks.

I watched that Saints pack last night and it was a world away from most teams in the competition, add in Roby who still has that ability to scoot away from tired and slow defenders and it’s exciting.

One person who perhaps doesn’t get enough credit behind the scenes is Mike Rush, he seemed to do a lot of tidying up following the Cunningham era and more often than not their recruitment is good.

Re: St.Helens : Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:59 am  

St Helens have done well over recent years, they have managed to build a squad with a good balance of experience and young players being brought through (unlike our reliance on too many young players) the core of experienced player has been key for them. Next year will be interesting as some of those players leaving may change the balance a little and you can never tell how new players joining will go (I think Coote will be a huge miss along with Fages).

The standard has slipped year on year across the game as a whole - I despair sometimes at the lack of basic skills on display at times and the British game is so weak in some areas (backs especially). I do suspect the lack of quality overseas sings has not helped but I also think the lack of good quality reserve grade competition is a big factor too.

Re: St.Helens : Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:43 am  

Saints have simply made some really good decisions off the field with their playing recruitment, coaching recruitment and scouting of academy talent. I also get the impression their strength and conditioning is superior to other clubs as well.

I think the playing and coaching staff at four of the six clubs in SL who are spending the full cap (Wigan, Leeds, Warrington and Hull) all need to take a long hard look at themselves in all honesty. The return on investment is appalling. Not just with results but the standard. The lack of innovation, adventure and creativity in attack is really sad to watch and even the more basic skills have seemed to deteriorate in recent years.

Re: St.Helens : Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:02 pm  

I'd like to see how they cope with an injury crisis similar to what we usually have. Rarely have they been missing all their key players at once.

When they tend to play weak sides they tend to lose (London twice and Salford the other week), and our one win against them was when Walmsley was missing which I don't think was a coincidence.

Bringing in Welsby, Dodd etc is easy when the big names are all still there.

Conditioning is certainly something we seem to struggle with. Yes we're fit in terms of going the distance, but we lose half our 1-13 for large chunks of most seasons.

Re: St.Helens : Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:47 pm  

TheWarringtonWolve69 wrote:

So judging by the responses Saints have just been lucky?

Ok then.

As much as I give Saints great credit, yes…luck is involved.

You can’t discount the amount of games that Wigan actually played, then throw in injuries to people like Manfredi, Burgess, French, Field, Tommy L, Hardaker etc

Would Saints be in the same position with injuries to key players and having to fulfill all their fixtures?

That can’t be discounted.

Re: St.Helens : Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:19 pm  

What also can't be discounted is that the season prior to Lam taking over we won the Grand Final and were Champions.
The decline under Lam's tenure has been stark and dramatic.
My problem with this is how in future we dismiss coaches are failing? Lam didn't win a big game in his three years, not a single one. He should have gone at the latest following the abysmal Cup semi defeat to Leeds in 2020. That he lasted until the of of 2021 is inexplicable.
Saints are a good squad, good team who are making good signings.
They had their dreadful time under Cunningham then had an inspired appointment of Holbrook as head coach. He transformed the squad immediately mid season without any signings. IL did the same in 2010 with the appointment of Mcguire.
The appointment of the next head coach could well be more important than any single signing.
Lets see what they come up with and who is our next head coach.

Re: St.Helens : Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:22 pm  

dany1979 wrote:

As much as I give Saints great credit, yes…luck is involved.

You can’t discount the amount of games that Wigan actually played, then throw in injuries to people like Manfredi, Burgess, French, Field, Tommy L, Hardaker etc

Would Saints be in the same position with injuries to key players and having to fulfill all their fixtures?

That can’t be discounted.

Granted wigan have has bad luck with injuries this year but as for your other point, you played 4 more league games than us but people conveniently forget that we went to Wembley and played twice the amount of cup games as you. So the difference over the season is 2 games. So probably not as big a factor as some like to make out.

Re: St.Helens : Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:16 pm  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

Granted wigan have has bad luck with injuries this year but as for your other point, you played 4 more league games than us but people conveniently forget that we went to Wembley and played twice the amount of cup games as you. So the difference over the season is 2 games. So probably not as big a factor as some like to make out.

Lest we forget “the COVID miracle” that allowed rest between games! yet conveniently allowed the challenge cup to take place

Re: St.Helens : Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:50 pm  

stpatricks wrote:

Lest we forget “the COVID miracle” that allowed rest between games! yet conveniently allowed the challenge cup to take place

Haha I’m not going there again but it makes no odds to my comment with regards to the difference in amount of games played. We played the same or more as most other teams across the full year.

Re: St.Helens : Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:55 pm  

Saints and Catalans are by far and out the best teams in the comp. Any other team in that grand final and it would have made a mockery of SL IMO.

Saints and Catalans have set the standard. Whether you think that’s better or worse than the Holbrook era is irrelevant. You’re still looking at the CC holders and a potential (probable) ‘3-peat’ side. That’s not a bad side, or one that’s going backwards. It can’t be labelled as that. The only sides going backwards are us, Cas, Hull and arguably Leeds. The rest seem to be stagnating or slowly progressing.

If Saints win it again next season because of that, then so be it. They’ll deserve jt again. It’s up to IFL/KR to sort the mess out properly and have us realistically challenging again.