Re: Is RL dead? : Sat May 04, 2019 3:21 pm  

moto748 wrote:

When people say, is RL dying, they don't mean RL, they mean SL. The NRL is thriving, and why wouldn't it? They have a great product playing (mostly) exciting rugby that people want to watch. So called "sanitisation" of the sport doesn't seem to have hurt them

Our sport is a fast handling game,much better suited to summer weather and good pitches than mud-baths. Do people really believe that switching to winter and playing in freezing cold conditions will attract any but the most hardcare fans? Dream on.

Our season opener is usually -2 degrees and snowing, not the best way to launch a season, same goes for the end when it’s pi55ing down.

Re: Is RL dead? : Sat May 04, 2019 3:23 pm  

Who exactly came up with the salary cap idea? Its socialist/communist in nature and just drags the top teams down to the level of the bottom teams. Surely it is illegal if challenged in court? It limits a company investing in better players to increase their revenue via more people coming through the turnstile to see those better players.

Re: Is RL dead? : Sat May 04, 2019 3:36 pm  

The_Enforcer wrote:

Who exactly came up with the salary cap idea? Its socialist/communist in nature and just drags the top teams down to the level of the bottom teams. Surely it is illegal if challenged in court? It limits a company investing in better players to increase their revenue via more people coming through the turnstile to see those better players.

It was brought in to stop us winning everything, in realty we pushed the boundaries and became the most famous rugby team in the world, up there with the all blacks, we were in debt and had to win the challenge cup every year to break even though.

I wonder what the Premier League would look like if they were only allowed to spend 1 million a week on wages? All the superstars would go abroad, as would the sponsors and their money, the standards would decrease and the spectacle would follow, because of that the viewing figures would decrease as would the revenue from the TV deals. And here we are.

Re: Is RL dead? : Sat May 04, 2019 3:52 pm  

Really agree with the points made, especially Pieman and the salary cap thing in general.

As a wire fan, things are ok/good at the mo as we have a backer in S Moran who is willing to try and bring in the best players as possible. That said, I wish our side now was competing in the early sl era where you guys, Saints, Bradford and Leeds were going toe to toe. Even though Wire weren’t a part of that exclusive group, it was great as a neutral to watch those games where all the top 4 sides had quality players across the park.

For me, the salary cap has done so much damage. Yes, the overall league is more competitive, but it lacks the box office players to bring the crowds in. A couple of years back, when we had Chris Sandow; love him or hate him, he added (I reckon) at least 2k to our attendances. We had a sell v Widnes only 2 years ago.

I used to hate Wigan many years back, along with Saints now, or any more successful local sides than Wire- which was most! But I found it a bit sad watching your game v London with such a low crowd- It’s worrying times for our game when the the most famous club worldwide, in both codes arguably, has masses of empty seats. You guys used to have an average of 17k a few years back.

Anyhow, for the good of the game, (yes it’s nice to beat the previously unbeatable for us in you guys and Leeds), but I’d rather lose a few matches and have higher attendances returning, especially at our flagship sides.

There’s no easy solution. But one thing’s for sure, if we can start to attract the box office players again by changing the salary cap; our sport will grow attendances and start to attract the bigger sponsors again. Thus giving our fantastic sport the exposure it deserves.

Re: Is RL dead? : Sat May 04, 2019 3:53 pm  

(Post- I’ve just posted at the same time as your post Post)

Re: Is RL dead? : Sat May 04, 2019 4:11 pm  

Gazwire wrote:

Really agree with the points made, especially Pieman and the salary cap thing in general.

As a wire fan, things are ok/good at the mo as we have a backer in S Moran who is willing to try and bring in the best players as possible. That said, I wish our side now was competing in the early sl era where you guys, Saints, Bradford and Leeds were going toe to toe. Even though Wire weren’t a part of that exclusive group, it was great as a neutral to watch those games where all the top 4 sides had quality players across the park.

For me, the salary cap has done so much damage. Yes, the overall league is more competitive, but it lacks the box office players to bring the crowds in. A couple of years back, when we had Chris Sandow; love him or hate him, he added (I reckon) at least 2k to our attendances. We had a sell v Widnes only 2 years ago.

I used to hate Wigan many years back, along with Saints now, or any more successful local sides than Wire- which was most! But I found it a bit sad watching your game v London with such a low crowd- It’s worrying times for our game when the the most famous club worldwide, in both codes arguably, has masses of empty seats. You guys used to have an average of 17k a few years back.

Anyhow, for the good of the game, (yes it’s nice to beat the previously unbeatable for us in you guys and Leeds), but I’d rather lose a few matches and have higher attendances returning, especially at our flagship sides.

There’s no easy solution. But one thing’s for sure, if we can start to attract the box office players again by changing the salary cap; our sport will grow attendances and start to attract the bigger sponsors again. Thus giving our fantastic sport the exposure it deserves.

Wire would certainly flourish if the Salary Cap was gone because you have a wealthy backer and lots of money to spend.

And you know what ... I wouldn't resent that for one second.

We need as many clubs as possible signing big name players. You weren't too shabby in the era we're talking about when you had players like Les Boyd, Steve Roach, Joe Ropati, Des Drummond, John Woods playing for you. Then there was Leeds and Widnes with their big names. Wigan may have dominated overall but it was still a high-class competition with some incredible contests and good sized crowds.

People will always argue that two or three clubs being great is not enough, especially if the cost is other clubs going out of business trying to compete. But other clubs have gone out of business even under the salary cap, and now we have no teams who are great, and the poor crowds are reflecting it (despite the better weather).

Change is cleary in the air. But my fear is that it'll take too long.

Re: Is RL dead? : Sat May 04, 2019 4:28 pm  

Gazwire wrote:

Really agree with the points made, especially Pieman and the salary cap thing in general.

As a wire fan, things are ok/good at the mo as we have a backer in S Moran who is willing to try and bring in the best players as possible. That said, I wish our side now was competing in the early sl era where you guys, Saints, Bradford and Leeds were going toe to toe. Even though Wire weren’t a part of that exclusive group, it was great as a neutral to watch those games where all the top 4 sides had quality players across the park.

For me, the salary cap has done so much damage. Yes, the overall league is more competitive, but it lacks the box office players to bring the crowds in. A couple of years back, when we had Chris Sandow; love him or hate him, he added (I reckon) at least 2k to our attendances. We had a sell v Widnes only 2 years ago.

I used to hate Wigan many years back, along with Saints now, or any more successful local sides than Wire- which was most! But I found it a bit sad watching your game v London with such a low crowd- It’s worrying times for our game when the the most famous club worldwide, in both codes arguably, has masses of empty seats. You guys used to have an average of 17k a few years back.

Anyhow, for the good of the game, (yes it’s nice to beat the previously unbeatable for us in you guys and Leeds), but I’d rather lose a few matches and have higher attendances returning, especially at our flagship sides.

There’s no easy solution. But one thing’s for sure, if we can start to attract the box office players again by changing the salary cap; our sport will grow attendances and start to attract the bigger sponsors again. Thus giving our fantastic sport the exposure it deserves.

Wire are up there now spending money on good Aussies in their prime with Blake Austin, they have decent squad players and have dipped their hand into Rugby Union market with Luther Burrell (Don’t know if he’ll be any good mind), I wish more clubs in SL had the same idea.

Re: Is RL dead? : Sat May 04, 2019 5:10 pm  

I agree with most of what's been said. I would like to say as well that the constant chopping and changing of format and rules has really contributed too. The Super League bosses have been far too reactive and knee jerk. Some of the formats and rule changes have been silly gimmicks at the expense of long term credibility.

Also obviously it's just money. Salary cap is the big one. It's frankly embarrassing that the league only got Ben Barba because he's a coke head and Joel Monaghan because he put his cock in a dogs mouth. How can we celebrate having those players when they clearly only came because of degenerate behaviour? It's like we just pick up the dregs. I'm not trying to take a moral high ground here either, I know Wigan have Zak Hardaker and had Hock, I'm just saying they would be playing in England anyway, the first two just demonstrate that we're such a poop league we only get outcasts.

Re: Is RL dead? : Sat May 04, 2019 6:48 pm  

Nice one Cruncher and Post. You’ve just reminded me of Widnes during the late 80s (when I first started watching RL). What a side that was. I went to the game Wids v Wigan (88/89 I think) at Naughton Park for the league decider under the floodlights. What a game! Two top quality sides going toe to toe. It’s a few years back, but I remember Widnes winning, something like 11-6 I think??
I can kind of remember the sides. I won’t quote the Wigan one as you guys will know it. But here’s the Widnes side as far as I can remember:

Alan tait
John deveroux
Andy currier
Darren Wright
M offiah ( I think he was still at wids before he moved to you for 400k
Myler/Davies
Hulme
Sorenson
Mckenzie
Joe grima
Koloto
Moriarty
Les holiday/Richie eyes (sent off at Wembley v you in the cc)

(It’s just an educated guess at the team Widnes would have had at the time)
There were other class players not in the 13 I’ve mentioned. Fimalo, other Hulme brother, Mike o neill, Brimma kebie. The Wids forwards brought in by Laughton were absolute beasts.

But as you say, we did have some good sides. I’ll never forget losing out to Joe Lydon’s drop goal (semi at Maine Road). You scored a conciliatory try near the end but it was close. It was such a good side and team which gave your superstars a proper game. I’ll always look back at those times and have a shed load of envy. But, as a Wire fan; a pack of Boyd, Tamiti, Roach, les Davidson, mgginty, and Sir Micheal Gregory will always give you a chance, and definitely give any fan of proper sport a real reason to buy a ticket.

Re: Is RL dead? : Sat May 04, 2019 6:51 pm  

JackH wrote:

I agree with most of what's been said. I would like to say as well that the constant chopping and changing of format and rules has really contributed too. The Super League bosses have been far too reactive and knee jerk. Some of the formats and rule changes have been silly gimmicks at the expense of long term credibility.

Also obviously it's just money. Salary cap is the big one. It's frankly embarrassing that the league only got Ben Barba because he's a coke head and Joel Monaghan because he put his cock in a dogs mouth. How can we celebrate having those players when they clearly only came because of degenerate behaviour? It's like we just pick up the dregs. I'm not trying to take a moral high ground here either, I know Wigan have Zak Hardaker and had Hock, I'm just saying they would be playing in Englaynd anyway, the first two just demonstrate that we're such a poop league we only get outcasts.

Funny- the Ben Barba and J Monaghan bit