: Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:34 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

At the end of the day neither of us know, we can only speculate. However I would guess that when Barrett signed for Wigan he was on similar money to what Sculthorpe was on at Saints. Sculthorpe was GB captain at the time and was on a contract which he had signed when he was the top player in Super League and twice won Man of Steel. So I don't think its unreasonable to expect that he was on a top deal.

Wigan on the other hand had used up a big chunk of their salary cap on one player (Fielden) which will have limited their ability to offer big deals to any of their new signings like Barrett.

I seem to recall something in my head that the first year he was at Wigan, Barretts wages were subsidised by St George to get him into their cap.

Sally, Sculthorpe signed a one year deal the back end of 2007, and as said, a proportion of it will have come from the RFL, so I'd pretty much assume it paid for itself, or it cost Saints very little. I think your thinking that he's been running down a long term deal from when he was GB Captain/Man Of Steel etc, he hasn't, he signed a one year extension since than. He'll have been on a pittance compared to Barrett, of course I don't know, but I'd be pretty sure. Saints nearly let him go at the end of 2007.

: Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:49 pm  

Personally my view of us as a club is we don`t have the luxury of signing players like Richie Myler who MAY or may NOT turn out to be SL standard, its all well and good doing it in NL1 but SL is a huge step forward. We need players that are proven and can do it now at this level, we have our own version of one for the future in Bobby Goulding Jnr as he has been signed in the hope he can be the next young half back to break onto the scene.

We need a big name to replace Briers in my opinion and not chancing some young kid that hasn`t proven anything so far other than a bit of potential in a lower league, maybe its time to start looking at Union again for flair players like the Bateman`s and Jonathon Davies`s of this world as available, quality strike players are a bit thin on the ground in RL especially stand offs.

: Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:51 pm  

Henson? Hodgson?

: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:04 pm  

Rob Wire wrote:

Personally my view of us as a club is we don`t have the luxury of signing players like Richie Myler who MAY or may NOT turn out to be SL standard, its all well and good doing it in NL1 but SL is a huge step forward. We need players that are proven and can do it now at this level, we have our own version of one for the future in Bobby Goulding Jnr as he has been signed in the hope he can be the next young half back to break onto the scene.

We need a big name to replace Briers in my opinion and not chancing some young kid that hasn`t proven anything so far other than a bit of potential in a lower league, maybe its time to start looking at Union again for flair players like the Bateman`s and Jonathon Davies`s of this world as available, quality strike players are a bit thin on the ground in RL especially stand offs.

So, we shouldn't chance a kid who's played for England, and by this time next year will have played a year in SL, but we should chance people on pretty big deals who've never played Rugby League before ? Just to be clear like.

Super League might be this 'big step up' that people keep mentioning, but Westerman didn't struggle, or the likes of Fakir, Mounis etc who'd been playing in an inferior French league.

Richard Myler isn't one for the future Rob, he's one for the now.

: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:21 pm  

JWP wrote:

So, we shouldn't chance a kid who's played for England,

Thats hardly an achievement in this day and age is it, look at some of the rubbish that have put on an England shirt in recent times. Warrington like i said do NOT have the time or luxury of being able to sign this type of player like Richie Myler to be a main starter in the half backs that like i said MAY or may NOT turn out to be SL standard.

It wouldn`t be a problem if we were Leeds or Saints and had experienced major finals and silverware on a regular basis in recent times as you could then afford to chance rookie players and bring them through slowly like Leeds were looking at the young kid from Whitehaven, your on about chancing Richie Myler ahead of Darren Lockyer from the way i have read it which if true is a bit laughable, by the way like i have already stated i personally wouldn`t hope us to sign Lockyer given his recent injury record of which one was a serious injury along with his age.

We have been starved of success for too long now and we need proven class in the key positions ahead of potential class, the likes of Castleford and Salford were forced by their budgets to chance players like Westerman and Myler, tell me a SL side that last won any major silverware that started with a rookie young kid at half back ?

: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:32 pm  

Rob Wire wrote:

Thats hardly an achievement in this day and age is it, look at some of the rubbish that have put on an England shirt in recent times. Warrington like i said do NOT have the time or luxury of being able to sign this type of player like Richie Myler to be a main starter in the half backs that like i said MAY or may NOT turn out to be SL standard.

It wouldn`t be a problem if we were Leeds or Saints and had experienced major finals and silverware on a regular basis in recent times as you could then afford to chance rookie players and bring them through slowly like Leeds were looking at the young kid from Whitehaven, your on about chancing Richie Myler ahead of Darren Lockyer from the way i have read it which if true is a bit laughable, by the way like i have already stated i personally wouldn`t hope us to sign Lockyer given his recent injury record of which one was a serious injury along with his age.

We have been starved of success for too long now and we need proven class in the key positions ahead of potential class, the likes of Castleford and Salford were forced by their budgets to chance players like Westerman and Myler, tell me a SL side that last won any major silverware that started with a rookie young kid at half back ?

Leeds Rhinos.

Ps, I want to know more about thes players that we should be getting from Union Rob, y'know because we can't 'risk a kid' as you put it, but we can pluck a player who's never played the game before and will command alot more money, but that's cool.

: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:45 pm  

JWP wrote:

Sally, Sculthorpe signed a one year deal the back end of 2007, and as said, a proportion of it will have come from the RFL, so I'd pretty much assume it paid for itself, or it cost Saints very little. I think your thinking that he's been running down a long term deal from when he was GB Captain/Man Of Steel etc, he hasn't, he signed a one year extension since than. He'll have been on a pittance compared to Barrett, of course I don't know, but I'd be pretty sure. Saints nearly let him go at the end of 2007.

Im sure he was on less money last year(2008), which is why I said that when Barrett signed (as in for the 2007 season) I bet he was on a similar deal to Scully. The point in general I was making with Scully was that Saints were able to win trophies whilst having a player on a big deal and still fitting other quality players under the cap - even when Scully wasn't often playing, which was several seasons.

Anyway I don't want to get distracted arguing over that, the main discussion that we were having was about Myler.

My feelings on our recruitment policy are that we should go for upcoming players who have talent and not achieved anything yet, so they will be hungry to make a step up to a bigger club and try to win honours. So Myler if he does turn out to be as good as you are suggesting fits this brief.

With the halfback situation basically we need to have 3 good halfbacks on the books. I think Bridge's future is as an outside back so I'm not counting Bridge as one of the three. When Briers contract is up at the end of the year I think its time to call a day and move forwards so for me we need to recruit 2 players. If Lockyer starts 2009 well with Brisbane then I would be looking to go for him and then if a player like Myler was available at reasonable cost bring him on board as well as the third halfback. This doesn't expose us to the position of having an unproven halfback who doesn't cut it - as happened when we tried Bridge there - because if thats the case he can understudy Lockyer and Monaghan. However if he turns out to be a real talent then he can easily be accommodated in the team either by playing Lockyer at fullback or Monaghan at hooker. Lockyer would be a genuine matchwinner who would make a similar impact to us to Davies, and that could put us in trophy territory. Then if he does leave after a year we still have two good halves on contract.

If Lockyer shows signs of decline next year, or his body starts breaking down like Johns did, then I wouldn't support going for him because then he goes into the category of players who have done it in the past and are now playing out time till they retire, we have too many of those.

So I don't want to come over too negative on Myler I want to take a look at how he does next season, but I think you are being overenthusiastic - how often have you seen him against quality opposition? He may be a talent but to identify him as our top target for 2010 when he hasn't even played SL yet is a bit premature. Its like us being apparently ready to shell out big bucks to bring Neil Turley into Super League a few years back...

: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:56 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

Im sure he was on less money last year(2008), which is why I said that when Barrett signed (as in for the 2007 season) I bet he was on a similar deal to Scully. The point in general I was making with Scully was that Saints were able to win trophies whilst having a player on a big deal and still fitting other quality players under the cap - even when Scully wasn't often playing, which was several seasons.

Anyway I don't want to get distracted arguing over that, the main discussion that we were having was about Myler.

My feelings on our recruitment policy are that we should go for upcoming players who have talent and not achieved anything yet, so they will be hungry to make a step up to a bigger club and try to win honours. So Myler if he does turn out to be as good as you are suggesting fits this brief.

With the halfback situation basically we need to have 3 good halfbacks on the books. I think Bridge's future is as an outside back so I'm not counting Bridge as one of the three. When Briers contract is up at the end of the year I think its time to call a day and move forwards so for me we need to recruit 2 players. If Lockyer starts 2009 well with Brisbane then I would be looking to go for him and then if a player like Myler was available at reasonable cost bring him on board as well as the third halfback. This doesn't expose us to the position of having an unproven halfback who doesn't cut it - as happened when we tried Bridge there - because if thats the case he can understudy Lockyer and Monaghan. However if he turns out to be a real talent then he can easily be accommodated in the team either by playing Lockyer at fullback or Monaghan at hooker. Lockyer would be a genuine matchwinner who would make a similar impact to us to Davies, and that could put us in trophy territory. Then if he does leave after a year we still have two good halves on contract.

If Lockyer shows signs of decline next year, or his body starts breaking down like Johns did, then I wouldn't support going for him because then he goes into the category of players who have done it in the past and are now playing out time till they retire, we have too many of those.

So I don't want to come over too negative on Myler I want to take a look at how he does next season, but I think you are being overenthusiastic - how often have you seen him against quality opposition? He may be a talent but to identify him as our top target for 2010 when he hasn't even played SL yet is a bit premature. Its like us being apparently ready to shell out big bucks to bring Neil Turley into Super League a few years back...

I think we're getting to a common ground here. My initial point was simply in response to "Who should be our top target for 2010" and for me, he'd be the first target (Myler). I'm not against bringing in another halfback alongside him, and him being integrated into the side as oppose to Chris Bridge style 'given half the pitch to control' thrown in at the deep end. I maintain, he'd be my first point of call, once we'd secured him, any quality NRL half would be great, I agree with you on the Lockyer brief, very much a watch & wait brief, problem with this being, to get him, if he is available is that you'll probably have to act quick, so rather than getting a full NRL to see how he goes, your going to have to act in say July to beat off other clubs, so to some degree the signing comes with a risk.

The way I see it, when Danny McGuirre helped Leeds to the Challenge Cup Final in 2003, I remember him scoring twice at the Galpharm when they beat Saints in extra time, prior to 2003, he'd played 12 first team games, so for people to say that 'rookies don't get you anywhere' is rubbish for me, if they are good enough, and as you rightly say, given time, then will get you somewhere.

Maybe, just maybe, I am getting a little OTT about him, I've only seen him for Salford, somebody I know who I respect knows him well, and has watched him grow up as he lives close by thinks alot of him (I know that doesn't carry too much weight), but from what I saw I was very impressed, circa 40 tries in your debut season in NL1 when no doubt he will have been a target, I've seen him create tries, I think he has a good short kicking game, but like I have said, this year will be the acid test, how he does in a Salford side that's likely to struggle.

What I know as FACT, is that you'll drag this up if he's crap, and if he's great and goes onto greatness, I won't be able to find it.

: Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:01 pm  

JWP wrote:

Leeds Rhinos.

Ps, I want to know more about thes players that we should be getting from Union Rob, y'know because we can't 'risk a kid' as you put it, but we can pluck a player who's never played the game before and will command alot more money, but that's cool.

If your on about either Burrow or McGuire then both were experienced SL players before they won silverware with the Rhinos, its a far cry from a young kid that hasn`t even played a game of SL yet.

I`m not saying we shouldn`t invest in young british talent as i think we should do without any shadow of a doubt, its just i wouldn`t want us to go down the route you seem to want us to go down and that is to sign a rookie kid that hasn`t played a single game of SL yet with all his form is in a lower league that made Mick Nanyn look like Mal Menninga and start him as a first choice half back.

All Richie Myler is so far is a bit of potential and nothing more, Tompkins is twice the player he is anyway if your talking about talented british half backs.

: Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:02 pm  

Rob Wire wrote:

If your on about either Burrow or McGuire then both were experienced SL players before they won silverware with the Rhinos, its a far cry from a young kid that hasn`t even played a game of SL yet.

I`m not saying we shouldn`t invest in young british talent as i think we should do without any shadow of a doubt, its just i wouldn`t want us to go down the route you seem to want us to go down and that is to sign a rookie kid that hasn`t played a single game of SL yet with all his form is in a lower league that made Mick Nanyn look like Mal Menninga and start him as a first choice half back.

All Richie Myler is so far is a bit of potential and nothing more, Tompkins is twice the player he is anyway if your talking about talented british half backs.

Rob, see my post above, i'm not saying that at all, and Myler will have played SL, we're talking about for 2010.