Re: Departures confirmed : Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:19 pm  

Wires71 wrote:

I hope it can all be blamed on the pack.

A team with a good pack and poor backs will 9/10 beat a team with a poor pack and good backs. A loss of control in the ruck area is a lost game - imo - and that control is gained by the forwards.

R Smith, with a relatively stronger pack is going to have an advantage over a similarly changed/turned around side possessing a smaller pack.

Re: Departures confirmed : Thu Aug 25, 2022 2:51 pm  

Huddersfield have definitely benefited from having some good forwards this season.

Re: Departures confirmed : Thu Aug 25, 2022 4:10 pm  

Over the last 15 years apart from the dominance of Leeds / Wigan / Saints there has been a number of teams that have lifted the LLS, Picked up the odd challenge cup win or appeared in finals. Us, Hull FC, Huddersfield or Catalan etc.
Now even though we can try and pretend that we were close to lifting the SL trophy we didnt and have been a million miles away.

So even though we appear a million miles away I can appreciate the direction the club has provided and the challenge that they have laid down to Powell. For years many people have said that the club has carried passengers (loyal servants in their comfort zone) on a gravy train.
This year has been tough to watch but I appreciate Powells hard arsed stance.
I am not yet convinced that he can take us all the way but i hope the minimum is that he brings a professionalism and ruthlessness to the team that we have not seen for a while.

If I was given the choice right now of swapping places with Huddersfield, Hull FC, Cas and Catalan i would take our position. Yep, terrible season, but not a great previous 10 years but the decision has been made to make the hard calls to do something about it rather than just making a few tweaks round the edges and hope that it comes off.

Let's get things right. That 2019 challenge cup win was because the players wanted to win that game but how many all or nothing games over the last 10 years have the players not quite had the desire, prep or mental toughness to overcome the opposition. At the start of the season I dint expect this scale of clear out but now it is happening I am on board with it.

Re: Departures confirmed : Sat Aug 27, 2022 1:47 pm  

Boss Hog wrote:

I think it started towards the end of the Smith era, when he just seemed to lose interest, took a backseat and allowed Agar to run the show for him.

Price was allowed to stay here for far too long and the situation festered under his tenure.

The fact that Price left Wire on his own terms, without being dismissed. reflects very badly on the Warrington hierarchy.

The seeds of that lethargy started when we lost the 2013 GF and lots of key players left. The feeling hung over us that our window with a special team had closed. It's hard to adjust from being a dominant juggernaut to going back in the mix of quite-good-kinda-contenders. The same happened to Cas after they lost the GF in 2017. We lost our edge.

There have been some brief periods where it was revived, eg Sandow's half season hot streak, Price arriving and bringing a new set of ideas and organisation and Blake Austin having a Sandow-like stretch for a few months.

But if you exclude those spells, for the last 8 seasons before this one we were basically in a purgatory of being good enough to be relevant but not good enough to be significant. Then this year we've blown it all up to start again.

Re: Departures confirmed : Sat Aug 27, 2022 3:53 pm  

Deus Dat Incrementum wrote:

Over the last 15 years apart from the dominance of Leeds / Wigan / Saints there has been a number of teams that have lifted the LLS, Picked up the odd challenge cup win or appeared in finals. Us, Hull FC, Huddersfield or Catalan etc.
Now even though we can try and pretend that we were close to lifting the SL trophy we didnt and have been a million miles away.

So even though we appear a million miles away I can appreciate the direction the club has provided and the challenge that they have laid down to Powell. For years many people have said that the club has carried passengers (loyal servants in their comfort zone) on a gravy train.
This year has been tough to watch but I appreciate Powells hard arsed stance.
I am not yet convinced that he can take us all the way but i hope the minimum is that he brings a professionalism and ruthlessness to the team that we have not seen for a while.

If I was given the choice right now of swapping places with Huddersfield, Hull FC, Cas and Catalan i would take our position. Yep, terrible season, but not a great previous 10 years but the decision has been made to make the hard calls to do something about it rather than just making a few tweaks round the edges and hope that it comes off.

Let's get things right. That 2019 challenge cup win was because the players wanted to win that game but how many all or nothing games over the last 10 years have the players not quite had the desire, prep or mental toughness to overcome the opposition. At the start of the season I dint expect this scale of clear out but now it is happening I am on board with it.

I can understand there's a bit of a feeling that the slate will be cleaned before we enter 2023, and there's a hope that 4 forwards to come into the squad beforehand will be the cavalry that we've been holding out for. Nevertheless, its far from easy to have any confidence that Vaughn, McGuire Dudson and Kasiano will be our required panacea, when we've created yet another unbalanced squad.

Were still looking at having Mata'utia at 3, Currie at 11 and Holmes at 12. Add that to Ratchford at 7, Clark at 9 who are no longer able to compete at former level, and either Minikin or Thewlis at 2 (not having a pop at Thewlis, because he should be at fullback, but we've brought in Dufty rather than a 7). All this makes us look even more unbalanced than we did at the start of 2022, with a lack of grunt. We could even be a centre short, should Wardle not sign and King be 2023's version of Josh Charnley.

Happy days ahead? I don't believe that DP has put together the right squad, as he hasn't been ruthless where the above are concerned. I have a feeling that at least two out of Philbin, Harrison, Mikaele and Bullock will be out on loan to enable a couple of backs to come in, and thus continue the stop gap situation that we encountered in this season. It's not professional enough.

Either the rebuild has not finished yet, or we've done it just to remedy the prop issue, at the expense of the organising spine, the outside backs and being stuck with a non functioning second row. I'm far from being onboard.

Re: Departures confirmed : Sat Aug 27, 2022 8:15 pm  

MorePlaymakersNeeded wrote:

I can understand there's a bit of a feeling that the slate will be cleaned before we enter 2023, and there's a hope that 4 forwards to come into the squad beforehand will be the cavalry that we've been holding out for. Nevertheless, its far from easy to have any confidence that Vaughn, McGuire Dudson and Kasiano will be our required panacea, when we've created yet another unbalanced squad.

Were still looking at having Mata'utia at 3, Currie at 11 and Holmes at 12. Add that to Ratchford at 7, Clark at 9 who are no longer able to compete at former level, and either Minikin or Thewlis at 2 (not having a pop at Thewlis, because he should be at fullback, but we've brought in Dufty rather than a 7). All this makes us look even more unbalanced than we did at the start of 2022, with a lack of grunt. We could even be a centre short, should Wardle not sign and King be 2023's version of Josh Charnley.

Happy days ahead? I don't believe that DP has put together the right squad, as he hasn't been ruthless where the above are concerned. I have a feeling that at least two out of Philbin, Harrison, Mikaele and Bullock will be out on loan to enable a couple of backs to come in, and thus continue the stop gap situation that we encountered in this season. It's not professional enough.

Either the rebuild has not finished yet, or we've done it just to remedy the prop issue, at the expense of the organising spine, the outside backs and being stuck with a non functioning second row. I'm far from being onboard.

Good points. In my opinion D Clark will have more success with big forwards creating fast play the balls, scattered or late retreating defenders. But we do need a number 7.

Re: Departures confirmed : Sat Aug 27, 2022 8:40 pm  

A new 7 or let dean/ Hayes have a chance there to see if they can control a game or give us an effective kicking game, Wardle plus another right centre and I'll be really happy with the squad.

I have a feeling I'll be moaning about our half back partnership and centre options when the squad numbers are announced.

Re: Departures confirmed : Sat Aug 27, 2022 8:57 pm  

Gazwire wrote:

A team with a good pack and poor backs will 9/10 beat a team with a poor pack and good backs. A loss of control in the ruck area is a lost game - imo - and that control is gained by the forwards.

R Smith, with a relatively stronger pack is going to have an advantage over a similarly changed/turned around side possessing a smaller pack.

So why as it never worked for Hull FC they have been with a big pack for years but have never been that good and always falling away at back end of seasons.

Re: Departures confirmed : Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:10 pm  

karetaker wrote:

So why as it never worked for Hull FC they have been with a big pack for years but have never been that good and always falling away at back end of seasons.

That's a good point, I'll have to think on that one.

Re: Departures confirmed : Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:13 pm  

Hull have loads of bad apples just like us but their bad apples are bigger? Like bad cooking apples?