: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:59 am  

gateaux wrote:

Not really possible (or advised) when he is fitting though really, only when he has stopped when fitting you shouldn't move at all unless they are in danger by not doing so.

Having been at the game yesterday it was scary to see him down on the pitch fitting and the length of the gap in play only added to the worry so I am very pleased to hear he should soon be alright and hopefully he will be back on the pitch soon.

thanks for that info, i can return to my job in A&E a little more confident now

i was discussing mates turning players onto their sides rather than what to do when some one is having either a grand mal or petit mal seizure, i asummed it was obvious not to start wrestling with some one until they stop fitting unless their airway is obstructed in any way (then you would have to try to extend the head backwards and lift the chin to open the airway) placing fingers in the mouth a defo no no in these cases as i have heard stories of people losing fingers in past.

i was a combat medic in the army for 5 years (RAMC) and have been a registered nurse since 1990 (warrington school of nursing)

i may know naff all about rugby but first aid i know a little

: Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:44 am  

As a total layman to flatter me most, i would guess it is not wise to move someone who is having seizure incase it damages any nerves/CNS? On side the body is restricted in which way it can move which might put pressure on these and the joints?

Interesting that you mentioned Grand Mal and Petit mal. Had a quick look on net and had this to say on page i landed on from searching Grand mal (or Tonic-clonic seizure as apparently is the current name).

Infact seems in most cases it is the best to leave them until the professionals arrive
Really wish i had opportunity to do First aid course at work but won't let me

Many people who experience tonic-clonic seizures will be aware of an oncoming seizure for up to several minutes before the full seizure begins. This is called an aura and is typically a simple partial seizure or a complex partial seizure which has spread to the whole brain. However, many people who have epilepsy do not experience auras. If a person reports they believe they are about to have a seizure, their safety should be ensured. This can be done by laying them into the recovery position, and removing any objects which may pose a danger to the person during the seizure. If the person does not experience an aura, and goes directly into a seizure, he or she should be gently eased to the ground if possible.

Once the convulsions have begun, the seizure must simply run its course. No attempt to restrain the person should be made because this risks injury to either party, instead it should be ensured that they do not injure themselves by placing something soft under their head, and ensuring their limbs and body don't bump into walls or other objects. If the person vomits, the person's head should be placed to the side to allow the vomit to run out of the mouth without blocking the airway. Nothing should ever be placed into the person's mouth, as this can cause the person to bite their tongue or choke, (or injure the one placing the object into their mouth). Contrary to popular belief, it is not possible for someone having a seizure to swallow their tongue. The frenulum linguae prevents this.

Once the seizure ends, the person will stop convulsing, the limbs will go limp, and the person will be completely unconscious for a while. Once they start to come to, they will usually be tired, disoriented, and unaware they have had a seizure. A person having a seizure should never be left unattended until they are fully recovered.

Which is suggesting recovery position as best position. But incase of a Rugby player you have to consider if there are any other injuries, and doubt they knew it was going to happen.

: Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:01 am  

slimwire66 wrote:

thanks for that info, i can return to my job in A&E a little more confident now

i was discussing mates turning players onto their sides rather than what to do when some one is having either a grand mal or petit mal seizure, i asummed it was obvious not to start wrestling with some one until they stop fitting unless their airway is obstructed in any way (then you would have to try to extend the head backwards and lift the chin to open the airway) placing fingers in the mouth a defo no no in these cases as i have heard stories of people losing fingers in past.

i was a combat medic in the army for 5 years (RAMC) and have been a registered nurse since 1990 (warrington school of nursing)

i may know naff all about rugby but first aid i know a little

To be fair some of the "views" I have encountered as a first aid trainer you can't assume anything about what people will do, especially when you ask "what would you do if you found someone having a fit?" it is quiet worrying the amount who (before properly trained) say they would put them straight into recovery position/restrain their movements/put something in their mouth etc etc so no nothing is obvious it seems!!


And WOTT - you don't need to do it through work, it is possible to book yourself onto a first aid course and basic courses are as short as 4 hours (ok they don't cover everything but they give you a basic knowledge). Recovery position is what is normally used after a seizure until the person comes round, but your right and if you suspect any form of head/spinal injury there are other ways to proceed (jaw thrust or log roll generally) depending on the amount of people available to assist - the key is to maintain the airway really.

: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:25 am  

gateaux wrote:

And WOTT - you don't need to do it through work, it is possible to book yourself onto a first aid course and basic courses are as short as 4 hours (ok they don't cover everything but they give you a basic knowledge). Recovery position is what is normally used after a seizure until the person comes round, but your right and if you suspect any form of head/spinal injury there are other ways to proceed (jaw thrust or log roll generally) depending on the amount of people available to assist - the key is to maintain the airway really.

Yeah, i know it's just finding the time like most things (silly reason i know), if i could have done it through work it would have been in working time and at no cost to myself. Ah well get round to it eventually.

: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:49 am  

Wire On The Telly wrote:

Yeah, i know it's just finding the time like most things (silly reason i know), if i could have done it through work it would have been in working time and at no cost to myself. Ah well get round to it eventually.

you got another film in the offering WOTT?

: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:00 pm  

Betty Ford Clinic wrote:

you got another film in the offering WOTT?

On a tangent from the thread, as a matter of fact i do. This year i'm looking to do two Short films and have started writing a feature film. Early days on that one but past few months haven't been good timewise. There what i've set out as minimum.
Hopefully this year will be different but were already almost into May!

Have wanted to do first aid course for while. Did my Ref one a while ago, so suppose it's an natural progression to my coaching badges.

: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:03 pm  

Wire On The Telly wrote:

On a tangent from the thread, as a matter of fact i do. This year i'm looking to do two Short films and have started writing a feature film. Early days on that one but past few months haven't been good timewise. There what i've set out as minimum.
Hopefully this year will be different but were already almost into May!

Have wanted to do first aid course for while. Did my Ref one a while ago, so suppose it's an natural progression to my coaching badges.

i make my television debut a week on Saturday if you need a budding young(ish) actors, can't say too much as i'm under contract not to divulge anything from the show.

: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:10 pm  

Betty Ford Clinic wrote:

i make my television debut a week on Saturday if you need a budding young(ish) actors, can't say too much as i'm under contract not to divulge anything from the show.

I would look out for it, but if i don't know about it
You know i was pretty gutted last time round. I never get a CV or showreel from Warrington's favourite Actor. No not Pete or Tim, but Mr Richmond himself.

: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:15 pm  

Wire On The Telly wrote:

I would look out for it, but if i don't know about it
You know i was pretty gutted last time round. I never get a CV or showreel from Warrington's favourite Actor. No not Pete or Tim, but Mr Richmond himself.

I understand that you can't just do things for other folks benefit, but, it would be pretty good if you could give Richmond a lead role, so that we can laugh at him like. I say this, as if I'll probably see it, but I'll level with you, I probably won't, but I'll try to if you get me.

Who better for a lead role, than the bloke who came 106th in Mr Warrington 2008.

: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:17 pm  

JWP wrote:

I understand that you can't just do things for other folks benefit, but, it would be pretty good if you could give Richmond a lead role, so that we can laugh at him like. I say this, as if I'll probably see it, but I'll level with you, I probably won't, but I'll try to if you get me.

Who better for a lead role, than the bloke who came 106th in Mr Warrington 2008.

Danny Dyer.