: Tue May 12, 2009 7:27 pm  

watch?v=j9eHoTispHs

well known video site



Nigel Farage UKIP, talking on Radio 5

Get rid of the free loaders we have now and get a decent party in

VOTE UKIP

: Wed May 13, 2009 9:06 am  

They should bring in a ballot with the ability to vote for 'no confidence'. That would get my vote.

: Wed May 13, 2009 9:22 am  

i don't know much about politics and i try not to let it bother me but one thing i have learnt during my adult years is that the press and media have a lot to say about how the world is perceived.

one minute Jade Goody is a racist then Jade Goody is Mother Teresa
one minute David Beckham is public enemy no. 1, then he is Jesus Christ our saviour and god almighty

and its seems to be the same with politics, one minute Brown is awesome but then he is a dimwit and the same with all PM's in my lifetime.

Now working on this basis unless anyone was actually on those pickit lines or in the middle of these demostrations then i would be enclined to believe that the press and media told these stories the way it would make you watch the news or buy the papers not actually the whole truth.

I am still convinced that Swine Flu is only being sold as the next great plague to take our minds off the credit crunch. People believe what they are told by the papers and news because we don't know what went on as we were not there. I don't want to use Hillsborough as it is a subject close to my heart but you hear stories from the fans and then you read the stories that were sold by police to the papers, at the time football violence was massive and the papers decided which story to run. Yes the violence and drunken fans as this sold more papers yet 20,000 Liverpool fans will tell you different.

The world is one big conspiracy theory, thats how you get people voting for different people, people believe what they want to believe. The truth is politicians are all as bad as each other as i can't see much improvement from Tory to Labour.

these are my opinions and please do not use any of my examples to detract from the topic (especially Hillsborough). I probably should be more trusting

: Wed May 13, 2009 11:24 am  

On the voting point - I don't think any of them are appealing and therefore I'll exercise my democratic option of not voting.

People fought so I could have that choice.

As for criticising Labour - what exactly are the Tories going to do that will change anything? As far as I can see they subscribe to the same metropolitan liberal beliefs that drives New Labour - I don't see the Tories campaigning to reverse anything Labour have done, in terms of ridiculous terror laws, the education system, the petty bureaucracy (HIPs etc) that have been a hallmark for Labour. Same goes for de-centralising government.

If you're voting Tory to change things - my view at the minute from what I've seen is you'll be disappointed. There's no point opposing things if you're not going to reverse them when you're in power. Given all the things Labour have done over the past 12 years - I think the Tories have been a quite pathetic opposition. At least in the early 80s Labour had some principles and there was a clear divide and choice. Now the option are based on presentation rather than anything to do with politics or policy.

: Wed May 13, 2009 6:12 pm  

UKIP is the way forward.

: Wed May 13, 2009 8:09 pm  

Just caught up with this thread...some good stuff.

Just a couple of points...

1. Whilst it seems inevitable that the Tories will win the next election, its interesting that to do so they have eventually had to resort to employing their own Tony Blair clone as leader, after 3 failures with more 'typical' Tory sorts.... ...Imitation is the greatest sort of flattery, so they say...

2. On a serious note, I really feel the time has come for a honest debate on the UK's immigration policy......I really believe that the party who has the balls to stand up and state that some sort of review plan is required will gain a lot of support, simply because it is a subject that has been deliberately hushed up.

I am no fascist, and I'm probably more left wing than right wing, but the recent gurkha campaign story is a typical example of how wrong this countries policies seem to be regarding immigration..... The scary thing is though, regarding any tightening of the borders, it would probably be a case of locking the stable door after the horse has bolted, all because, over the last few years, the woolly liberals of this country have made any reasonable discussion on race and immigration a taboo subject.

: Wed May 13, 2009 9:53 pm  

Immigration is a complicated subject which is oversimplified by both sides of the debate.

Its a similar situation to the numbers of imported players in Super League, ie there's a popular desire to see it trimmed down which is shared by many people in power as well but there are certain reasons why we are reliant on immigration:

- We have workers rights and a minimum wage which many small businesses can't afford, so illegal immigrants fill the hole at the bottom of the labour market. The government knew this when they brought in the minimum wage, they knew that in reality there would still be a cheap labour supply in the economy, but it looks good and appeases the unions to have a minimum wage because nobody really cares about the exploitation of those who shouldn't be here.

- We have the NHS. We're living longer than ever before, so we need more people of working age to support the pensioners. We can't make babies grow up more quickly, so we need quick imports. The NHS itself is massively overstretched, the only way it can get enough nurses is to take advantage of the fact we pay more than trained professionals get in Africa and the Phillipines, so we get ready made professionals over here.

- We have a serious skills shortage in many professional trades, because education in those areas has been neglected. There aren't enough home grown plumbers, carpenters, joiners etc to go round, hence why a lot of these tradesmen are foreign.

Immigration brings with it a lot of problems and I would definitely want to see some a tougher attitude but our economy is in a state where it relies on immigration so you won't see the powers that be acting as tough as everyone would like.

: Thu May 14, 2009 12:00 am  

sally cinnamon wrote:

Immigration is a complicated subject which is oversimplified by both sides of the debate.

Its a similar situation to the numbers of imported players in Super League, ie there's a popular desire to see it trimmed down which is shared by many people in power as well but there are certain reasons why we are reliant on immigration:

- We have workers rights and a minimum wage which many small businesses can't afford, so illegal immigrants fill the hole at the bottom of the labour market. The government knew this when they brought in the minimum wage, they knew that in reality there would still be a cheap labour supply in the economy, but it looks good and appeases the unions to have a minimum wage because nobody really cares about the exploitation of those who shouldn't be here.

- We have the NHS. We're living longer than ever before, so we need more people of working age to support the pensioners. We can't make babies grow up more quickly, so we need quick imports. The NHS itself is massively overstretched, the only way it can get enough nurses is to take advantage of the fact we pay more than trained professionals get in Africa and the Phillipines, so we get ready made professionals over here.

- We have a serious skills shortage in many professional trades, because education in those areas has been neglected. There aren't enough home grown plumbers, carpenters, joiners etc to go round, hence why a lot of these tradesmen are foreign.

Immigration brings with it a lot of problems and I would definitely want to see some a tougher attitude but our economy is in a state where it relies on immigration so you won't see the powers that be acting as tough as everyone would like.

Even having been on here for years i still struggle to ascertain when you are serious or stirring. Surely the comment about the unions not giving a stuff about migrant workers is tish-posh?

: Thu May 14, 2009 12:14 am  

You should really stay off here when you have had a few beers, AGAIN do no bypass the swear filter. Wolfette

: Thu May 14, 2009 12:17 am  

That's two threads that you have potentially attracted Mod attention for bypassing the infamous swear filter. You may want to edit before they next log on