: Fri May 01, 2009 7:21 am  

i'm all for expansion, and it seems to be working really well in south of france and the celtic juniors seem to be coming through really well too...

but it seems a bit mad to me, when we struggle to get big attendances at our games even though most teams are a maximum of an hour apart, to start pushing more and more fixtures further afield...surely the rfl should first try and get 20k regularly into each of the superleague games between heartland clubs and then push for expansion?

: Fri May 01, 2009 7:26 am  

Tones Tackle wrote:

They are intent on killing our game with that kind of nonsense.

RL belongs in the heartlands, if we are gonna expand what about trying cumbria first of all.

Edinburgh and Dublin have no RL heritage what so ever.

So are les catalan dragons ruining our game? third in the league last year, an average attendance of 8,488 last season, which for a side with no "heritage" is a fair few. also, a beautiful, cosmopolitan place which again adds to the competition. they got to the cup final, something which numerous clubs with "heritage" haven't done, some for as long as 20 years. progress is a fact of life. without it, the game would stagnate. i agree that the derby games have that special edge, but perpignan for a few days is by and large a better trip than say, widnes....

: Fri May 01, 2009 7:34 am  

What we need is a European Super League.

I mean that as an extra league. One league for the UK, one league for Europe. You can expand as much as you want then, aslong as nobody from outside the UK plays in the UK Super League.

Dublin Dynamoes
Catalans Dragons
Toulouse Olymique
Essen Munchers
Moscow Maulers

They'd all play in the European League

Warrington
Wigan
Saints
Leeds
Widnes

They'd all play in the UK league

If you really fancied it, you could have a 8/16 team play off system that involved both leagues and the Grand Final would decide the Champion of Europe. Sort of similar to the Lancashire and Yorkshire leagues back in the day, with the final at the end of the year.

: Fri May 01, 2009 10:22 am  

Teddington Wire wrote:

So are les catalan dragons ruining our game? third in the league last year, an average attendance of 8,488 last season, which for a side with no "heritage" is a fair few. also, a beautiful, cosmopolitan place which again adds to the competition. they got to the cup final, something which numerous clubs with "heritage" haven't done, some for as long as 20 years. progress is a fact of life. without it, the game would stagnate. i agree that the derby games have that special edge, but perpignan for a few days is by and large a better trip than say, widnes....

Bit of an unfair comparison as RL heritage in that area of France dates back almost as far as in Warrington (well 1930's anyway). The obvious success of Les Cats does not mean that we will get similar success from Cardiff, Edinburgh or Dublin. We still have not succeeded in London yet after years of trying.

Moving on a good question to ask the fervent expansionist supporter is "Will you support continued expansion for the good of the game even if it means your team will have to drop out of SL to accomodate?". I'm pretty sure TW that you wouldn't want Wire on the fringes just to support the Bulgarian Buchaneers and the blue sky vision of the RFL?

: Fri May 01, 2009 10:54 am  

Wires71 wrote:

Bit of an unfair comparison as RL heritage in that area of France dates back almost as far as in Warrington (well 1930's anyway). The obvious success of Les Cats does not mean that we will get similar success from Cardiff, Edinburgh or Dublin. We still have not succeeded in London yet after years of trying.

Very true. Many forget about the history of the game in France (Mike Rylance's 'The Forbidden Game' tells the story brilliantly). We still seem to be flogging a dead horse in London though.

: Fri May 01, 2009 10:58 am  

FireWire wrote:

Workington used to be in Super League, their average crowd was about 2,000. Seems like the people of Cumbria have forgotten about rugby league.

Unlike both Catalan Dragons and Celtic Crusaders Workington didn`t have the luxury of having 3 years grace from relegation, its already been proven that new SL clubs need more than 1 year to establish themselves at the top level. Cumbria hasn`t been given a real go at SL by anyone, i agree though that a merged team would be in their best interests to establish a SL team from Cumbria.

Is Cumbria fashionable enough for the RFL though based on them taking the magic weekend to both Cardiff and Edingburgh and also mentioning Dublin etc, i`m not on about a magic weekend up in Cumbria as that would be like having the Champions League final at Bangor City, the point i`m making is everywhere but Cumbria saeems to get mentioned by the RFL in its future plans.

If its going to fail then at least give them the chance to fail like they did with South Wales first time round and PSG, my own opinion is that the RFL don`t see Cumbria as fashionable for its future plans, the RFL remind me of Hyacinth Bucket when it comes to Cumbria as nothing Cumbria will ever do will be good enough to get them into one of Richard Lewis`s tea mornings.

: Fri May 01, 2009 11:02 am  

Vernonwire wrote:

Very true. Many forget about the history of the game in France (Mike Rylance's 'The Forbidden Game' tells the story brilliantly). We still seem to be flogging a dead horse in London though.

Yeah the Vichy Government outlawed Rugby League in the 40's. They believed it corrupted French youth!

London is flogging a dead horse sadly.

: Fri May 01, 2009 12:03 pm  

Rob Wire wrote:

Unlike both Catalan Dragons and Celtic Crusaders Workington didn`t have the luxury of having 3 years grace from relegation, its already been proven that new SL clubs need more than 1 year to establish themselves at the top level. Cumbria hasn`t been given a real go at SL by anyone, i agree though that a merged team would be in their best interests to establish a SL team from Cumbria.

Is Cumbria fashionable enough for the RFL though based on them taking the magic weekend to both Cardiff and Edingburgh and also mentioning Dublin etc, i`m not on about a magic weekend up in Cumbria as that would be like having the Champions League final at Bangor City, the point i`m making is everywhere but Cumbria saeems to get mentioned by the RFL in its future plans.

If its going to fail then at least give them the chance to fail like they did with South Wales first time round and PSG, my own opinion is that the RFL don`t see Cumbria as fashionable for its future plans, the RFL remind me of Hyacinth Bucket when it comes to Cumbria as nothing Cumbria will ever do will be good enough to get them into one of Richard Lewis`s tea mornings.

The biggest hurdle to a Cumbrian team being given a Super League franchsie are the Cumbrian Clubs themselves. None of them are big enough to support a team in itself or have the financial backing or infrastructure to do so. Yet the none of them are willing to work with the other clubs to address the problem by whichever means necessary (merger, overarching club with existing clubs as feeders).

As with many people in rugby league they appear good at blaming others for their problems without doing anything to address the issues themselves.

: Fri May 01, 2009 12:17 pm  

What i find interesting it that the man in question (Woods) said it isn't about money its about what the fans want and that he he will ask the fans before making any decisions.

Now i did fill in a questionnaire about the Cardiff experience but one of those question was not "shall we go to Scotland next year" there was a question about the hotel prices but i would be willing to pay that bit extra due to the location of the stadium in Cardiff.
Im led to believe that the main reason for moving away from Cardiff was because the welsh didn't do enough advertising for the event, is that not about money then

The RFL have signed a contract with Edinburgh so the event will be there next year also but if they were to move to Ireland the year after this would mean either getting a plane or a ferry and i don't believe people will do that, Cardiff and Edinburgh are both accessible by road all the way there and back, Ireland means getting a second form of transport and may even cost more money.

Will the RFL ask the fans there opinions on Ireland or will they just sign a two year contract and see if it takes off like they've done with Scotland, there will be near enough the same amount of fans there at the weekend as there was in Cardiff last year, the Scots have only sold 4,000 tickets which is again the same as the Welsh did last year.
Moving to Edinburgh poses no advantage for the fans and if anything it's a step back because the stadium in Cardiff is in a great location and because of the roof would keep any bad weather away from the stands.

The RFL are trying to expand the game of Rugby League (to much) and at the expense of the Fans, if the RFL were to ask fans for an opinion on expansion, im sure the majority of fans would say that enough is enough.

: Fri May 01, 2009 8:01 pm  

Tones Tackle wrote:

They are intent on killing our game with that kind of nonsense.

RL belongs in the heartlands, if we are gonna expand what about trying cumbria first of all.

Edinburgh and Dublin have no RL heritage what so ever.

Aye, but Huyton and Runcorn do.......
That's the way forward