Re: War of the Roses : Thu Nov 21, 2024 8:05 am  

I'm not in favour of any "made up game" between our very small pool of UK based players. I have seen our support for these games recently & when it has come to the crunch the species don't turn up. It wouldn't work in other similar sports either ... so it's not done. Only games v. OZ, NZ and now Samoa & maybe Tonga will drag a speccies out and that's with all our best players in the team.

Re: War of the Roses : Thu Nov 21, 2024 8:27 am  

Smiffy27 wrote:

I'm not in favour of any "made up game" between our very small pool of UK based players. I have seen our support for these games recently & when it has come to the crunch the species don't turn up. It wouldn't work in other similar sports either ... so it's not done. Only games v. OZ, NZ and now Samoa & maybe Tonga will drag a speccies out and that's with all our best players in the team.

I fully get where you are coming from regarding player pool it’s something that really needs to be worked on as a priority, sure Wigan and a couple of other teams are getting some good youngsters coming through now. Also it’s good the likes of Tonga and Samoa are getting stronger.

War of the Roses is pretty much State of Origin and look at how massive that as become now. Now I get we can’t have that overnight but it’s something we should be looking to. But yes right now I agree it won’t work. It doesn’t mean we should just stick it on a shelf, we have to get rid of the loop fixture somehow.

Re: War of the Roses : Thu Nov 21, 2024 9:23 am  

I realise we think we must do something but just occasionally it is just best to do nothing (it seems a bit defeatist I know). State of origin is brilliant but our fan base/player resources are nothing like in Oz and we speccies are so wrapped up in our own clubs.

Re: War of the Roses : Thu Nov 21, 2024 9:34 am  

I agree with Smiffy.

Just putting an extra game or two to clutter the fixture list isn't going to make us more competitive against the Aussies.

We sometimes talk like the Australians are good because State of Origin is such a tough competition. I think its the other way round. The Aussies are so good international competition is too easy for them so they needed to make their own competitive contest, and Origin is it for them.

Re: War of the Roses : Thu Nov 21, 2024 9:56 am  

Smiffy27 wrote:

I realise we think we must do something but just occasionally it is just best to do nothing (it seems a bit defeatist I know). State of origin is brilliant but our fan base/player resources are nothing like in Oz and we speccies are so wrapped up in our own clubs.

Fair. But it’s not just fans wrapped up in their own clubs it’s the owners to. There is to much focus on self interest for me. There was another piece written this week regarding changes to promotion and relegation and tbh I just couldn’t be bothered posting it. The actual author of it was pretty fed up I think when reading it. I love this sport dearly, yes I’m a Wire first but a Rugby League fan hence yes I do see a lot as one poster said in reply to something I posted a while back.

The game as massively changed since I went to my first game all the way back to 1970 those of us from that era loved it and I’m guessing some of us still struggle with how it is today. I know it’s had to change and I get that but I’m just worried as a sport in this country we are slowly dying and if we don’t do something it will. I struggle with where you say it’s best to do nothing I think we have long gone past that. The things we have done have just not worked.

Re: War of the Roses : Thu Nov 21, 2024 12:57 pm  

Why not have England vs super league clubs.

Yes I get it that some SL clubs would be more affected and weakened than most, but isn’t that why SL clubs have the reserves to deal with player losses.

Warrington vs England would have me buying a ticket, Lancs v Yorkshire wouldn’t.
Is it really much difference than the successful club vs Australia that we had during the touring tests?

Isn’t England vs SL teams a sterner and more financial secure concept than the failed Roses?

Or perhaps England vs a SL club might be too much of a contest

Re: War of the Roses : Thu Nov 21, 2024 1:51 pm  

rubber duckie wrote:

Why not have England vs super league clubs.

Yes I get it that some SL clubs would be more affected and weakened than most, but isn’t that why SL clubs have the reserves to deal with player losses.

Warrington vs England would have me buying a ticket, Lancs v Yorkshire wouldn’t.
Is it really much difference than the successful club vs Australia that we had during the touring tests?

Isn’t England vs SL teams a sterner and more financial secure concept than the failed Roses?

Or perhaps England vs a SL club might be too much of a contest

The obvious game would be Super League Winners vs. Rest of England. Not sure whether the SL Winners would feel about the extra fixture. I personally see this as more interesting & likely to work than any other idea. Wigan v Rest of England ... I think I know who my money would be on & by quite a few points.

Re: War of the Roses : Thu Nov 21, 2024 9:03 pm  

karetaker wrote:

The game as massively changed since I went to my first game all the way back to 1970 those of us from that era loved it and I’m guessing some of us still struggle with how it is today. I know it’s had to change and I get that but I’m just worried as a sport in this country we are slowly dying and if we don’t do something it will. I struggle with where you say it’s best to do nothing I think we have long gone past that. The things we have done have just not worked.

I started watching in the late 80s. In my lifetime watching rugby league, the sport peaked in two eras.

First was mid 90s just before Super League, around the time of that 94 Kangaroos tour. There were legends of the game in both hemispheres. Still my favourite ever time in the game.

Then when Super League came in, there were a few years of disruption especially in Australia, but also a lot of iconic players either retired or went back to rugby union when it turned professional. The standard really fell in the late 90s. But it started to pick up again around the turn of the millennium.

Second peak was mid 00s. It was around the time we had Andrew Johns. The quality of Super League, especially at the top end, was fantastic. There were three absolute powerhouses in Bradford, Saints and Leeds. All of them were big, physical and could play fantastic rugby. I remember thinking then that the sport was really heading in the right direction and Super League / summer rugby had been a fantastic success.

Then there was a steady decline. It was slow at first and for Wire fans we probably got distracted by our era of relative success under Tony Smith. I really started to notice the decline of the game after the great Leeds team broke up and their legends retired one by one. There was nothing really there to replace them. There were well coached teams in Wigan and Saints but the quality of player was way down on what they had before.

This is the longest downward swing that I can remember. For many years RL fans used to complain about the lack of ambition and advertising from the RFL. We used to say that the game was so good it would sell itself, all you needed to do was introduce somebody to it and they would be a fan for life. I don't believe that now and haven't believed it for a long time. It exists really as a part of culture in northern towns and club loyalty is what is keeping it going rather than the great product on the field.

Re: War of the Roses : Thu Nov 21, 2024 9:55 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

I started watching in the late 80s. In my lifetime watching rugby league, the sport peaked in two eras.

First was mid 90s just before Super League, around the time of that 94 Kangaroos tour. There were legends of the game in both hemispheres. Still my favourite ever time in the game.

Then when Super League came in, there were a few years of disruption especially in Australia, but also a lot of iconic players either retired or went back to rugby union when it turned professional. The standard really fell in the late 90s. But it started to pick up again around the turn of the millennium.

Second peak was mid 00s. It was around the time we had Andrew Johns. The quality of Super League, especially at the top end, was fantastic. There were three absolute powerhouses in Bradford, Saints and Leeds. All of them were big, physical and could play fantastic rugby. I remember thinking then that the sport was really heading in the right direction and Super League / summer rugby had been a fantastic success.

Then there was a steady decline. It was slow at first and for Wire fans we probably got distracted by our era of relative success under Tony Smith. I really started to notice the decline of the game after the great Leeds team broke up and their legends retired one by one. There was nothing really there to replace them. There were well coached teams in Wigan and Saints but the quality of player was way down on what they had before.

This is the longest downward swing that I can remember. For many years RL fans used to complain about the lack of ambition and advertising from the RFL. We used to say that the game was so good it would sell itself, all you needed to do was introduce somebody to it and they would be a fan for life. I don't believe that now and haven't believed it for a long time. It exists really as a part of culture in northern towns and club loyalty is what is keeping it going rather than the great product on the field.

That last paragraph is best I’ve read in a long time, it really sums up where we are and I believe a lot of fans will think the same.

We had Stevo and Eddie telling us it’s the greatest game ever and now Carney and co bigging it up big time but I’m starting to think they do it to keep in a job they really can’t believe it’s that good. But you have got it spot on and it’s painful to admit it. We do get some great games to watch from time to time but a lot of times you walk away thinking what was that.

Just watched the Wire v Wigan match from 88 some of the passing in that game and on that pitch was way better than some of the stuff we see today *sigh*

Re: War of the Roses : Fri Nov 22, 2024 2:15 pm  

Sally Cinnamon’s Law is similar to Godwins Law in that any conversation will end up including the Death of Rugby League.

Though I did watch the 88 game the other day and did wonder where our great game had gone.