England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind? : Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:03 pm  

I saw England beat Australia on TV at the Centenary world cup when I was still at school, but it was just another sport on BBC TV at the time. Little would I know that would be the only time I'd see England beat a Tier 1 team at a world cup in my lifetime.

Before the disastrous world cup in 2000 I was a Super League season ticket holder, and I've been to every world cup since, I've seen some horrible defeats and some painful exits, not many World cup high points involving England at all, but I really despair at the lack of quality England can call upon. In 200o we ran out of wingers, in 2017 we only had 1 centre. Players get older and slower but the replacements don't step up to the mark and displace them from the team. The same tried and failed players look good in the league and then get picked again and battered in full internationals.

Results in 2000 and 2008 were disastrous for different reasons, but in 2013 and 2017 I thought we had a genuine chance. We grew through the tournament in 2013 and actually put out a good team in a losing semi final. A huge upgrade on the coaching side made up for the reduced squad quality in 2017 but a favourable draw and creditable niling in the final isn't what I am after. I just want to see England win another big game before I give up, or the game I knew is gone for good.

2022 looks like another downgrade in terms of squad and a bigger one in terms of coaching staff. looks like we are falling down the rankings rather than looking to use home advantage to beat the best. Why is there such a lack of quality England players, particularly creative ones, and will we ever be able to turn the tide on this one?

Re: England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind? : Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:03 pm  

Past England Teams for Context:

2000– Semi Final Exit, Wins against Tier 1 Nations: 0
Team in last tournament appearance:
Radlinski, Walker, Naylor, Senior, Wellens, Deacon, Long
Fielden, Smith, Howard, Sculthorpe, Forshaw, Farrell
Peacock, Hay, Fleary, Anderson
Coach: John Kear

2008 – Semi Final Exit, Wins against Tier 1 Nations: 0
Team in last tournament appearance:
Wellens , Gardner, Gleeson, Senior, Calderwood, McGuire, Burrow
Graham, Roby, Peacock, Westwood, Ellis, Purdham
L Pryce, Morley, Higham, Wilkin
Coach: Tony Smith

2013 – Semi Final Exit, Wins against Tier 1 Nations: 0
Team in last tournament appearance:
Tomkins, Charnley, Watkins, Cudjoe, Hall, Widdop, Sinfield,
Graham, Roby, S. Burgess, Ferres, Westwood, O'Loughlin.
Burrow, G. Burgess, Hill, Ablett.
Coach: Steve McNamara

2017– Defeated finalists, Wins against Tier 1 Nations: 0
Team in last tournament appearance:
Widdop, McGillvary, Watkins, Bateman, Hall, Brown, Gale
Hill, Roby, Graham, Currie, Whitehead, S. Burgess
Walmsley, T. Burgess, Heighington, Lomax
Coach: Wayne Bennett


2022 England Squad:
The 30-men who were announced for that squad were:
John Bateman (Wigan Warriors), Daryl Clark (Warrington Wolves), Mike Cooper (Warrington Wolves), Ben Currie (Warrington Wolves), Thomas Davies (Catalans Dragons), Lewis Dodd (St Helens), Niall Evalds (Castleford Tigers), Liam Farrell (Wigan Warriors), Ryan Hall (Hull KR), Zak Hardaker (Wigan Warriors), Morgan Knowles (St Helens), Kruise Leeming (Leeds Rhinos), Matthew Lees (St Helens), Jonny Lomax (St Helens), Reece Lyne (Wakefield Trinity), Jermaine McGillvary (Huddersfield Giants), Paul McShane (Castleford Tigers), Tommy Makinson (St Helens), Liam Marshall (Wigan Warriors), Harry Newman (Leeds Rhinos), Mikolaj Oledzki (Leeds Rhinos), Kai Pearce-Paul (Wigan Warriors), Mark Percival (St Helens), Stefan Ratchford (Warrington Wolves), Dan Sarginson (Salford Red Devils), Sam Tomkins (Catalans Dragons), Alex Walmsley (St Helens), Jake Wardle (Huddersfield Giants), Jack Welsby (St Helens), George Williams (Warrington Wolves).
The final 24-man squad is set to be confirmed on Friday, September 30.

England Men's World Cup squad:

Sam Tomkins (Catalans Dragons) - Captain
Andy Ackers (Salford Red Devils)
Joe Batchelor (St Helens)
John Bateman (Wigan Warriors)
Tom Burgess (South Sydney Rabbitohs)
Mike Cooper (Wigan Warriors)
Herbie Farnworth (Brisbane Broncos)
Ryan Hall (Hull KR)
Chris Hill (Huddersfield Giants)
Morgan Knowles (St Helens)
Matty Lees (St Helens)
Tommy Makinson (St Helens)
Michael McIlorum (Catalans Dragons)
Mike McMeeken (Catalans Dragons)
Mikolaj Oledzki (Leeds Rhinos)
Kai Pearce-Paul (Wigan Warriors)
Victor Radley (Sydney Roosters)
Marc Sneyd (Salford Red Devils)
Luke Thompson (Canterbury Bulldogs)
Kallum Watkins (Salford Red Devils)
Jack Welsby (St Helens)
Elliott Whitehead (Canberra Raiders)
George Williams (Warrington Wolves)
Dom Young (Newcastle Knights)

Re: England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind? : Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:40 am  

Hopie wrote:

Why is there such a lack of quality England players, particularly creative ones, and will we ever be able to turn the tide on this one?

There arguably isn't. We've seen some trash play for England/GB over the years. I can remember Paul Wellens playing on the wing for example.

There is a lot of talent around at the moment and arguably we're seeing more players heading for Australia than ever before which can't be a bad thing for the international team.

It's just a shame this year that there are so many injured. The likes of Welsby, Dodd, Lomax, Percival, Walmsley and Lees would be the backbone of the England team, but sadly only a couple of them are fit. I don't see a better combo out there in the halves than Lomax and Dodd, which is what England would have had if it were not for bad luck.

Re: England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind? : Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:41 am  

So, the squad is out. Very surprised (but perhaps I shouldn't be) with the inclusion of McIllorum and frigging Mike Cooper

Re: England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind? : Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:41 am  

Wakefields fault probably.

Re: England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind? : Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:54 am  

Too many fixtures and the game is too fast now with the "6 agaaaaaiiiinnnnn" rule leading to more injuries.... IMG suggest cutting the season down to 22 games and having more internationals which could grow rugby leagues profile, attract more players to the game if international RL is more high profile and can pay more....narrow minded clubs chairmen reject IMG proposals as they want as many fixtures as possible from local teams that bring 100 away fans and buy pies to keep their club just viable from another year.... international games remain sporadic....players continue to get injured to due to too many games and game being too fast.... international team worsens....cycle repeats.

Re: England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind? : Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:01 am  

If you have any connection with Wigan you get a free pass into the squad. McIlorum and Cooper? FFS, we knew Wane would do this but it's so tiresome.

Re: England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind? : Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:33 am  

England Men's World Cup squad:

Sam Tomkins (Catalans Dragons) - Quality, but past his best?
Andy Ackers (Salford Red Devils) - Deserves it after a great season
Joe Batchelor (St Helens) - Automatic starter, best 2nd row in SL by a mile
John Bateman (Wigan Warriors) - Very lucky, just Wigan connections keeping him in now
Tom Burgess (South Sydney Rabbitohs) - Deserved
Mike Cooper (Wigan Warriors) - Shocking selection. Mr Average, does not deserve his place, Wigan connections again
Herbie Farnworth (Brisbane Broncos) - Deserved
Ryan Hall (Hull KR) - Living on past glories. Not good enough, but hopefully won't play anyway
Chris Hill (Huddersfield Giants) - Another very lucky to get in, undeserved
Morgan Knowles (St Helens) - Automatic pick at 13
Matty Lees (St Helens) - Automatic pick a prop
Tommy Makinson (St Helens) - Automatic pick on wing
Michael McIlorum (Catalans Dragons) - Again, Wigan connections? What on earth is this selection about?
Mike McMeeken (Catalans Dragons) - Deserved
Mikolaj Oledzki (Leeds Rhinos) - One for the future, nowhere near the level required yet but getting there
Kai Pearce-Paul (Wigan Warriors) - Wigan connections. Wigan connections. Wigan connections. Done absolutely nothing all season.
Victor Radley (Sydney Roosters) - Deserved
Marc Sneyd (Salford Red Devils) - Que?
Luke Thompson (Canterbury Bulldogs) - Automatic pick at prop
Kallum Watkins (Salford Red Devils) - Quality player, deserves his place
Jack Welsby (St Helens) - Automatic pick at fullback, but common sense will see him play 6 instead given Lomax is unavailable
Elliott Whitehead (Canberra Raiders) - Automatic pick at second row
George Williams (Warrington Wolves) - What? Wigan connections? Awful player, awful season, completely undeserving.
Dom Young (Newcastle Knights) - Good pick, proving himself in the NRL

My thoughts there. Bolded ones are very lucky to be there. The fact they're still in the 'Wigun lads barbie-cue' Whatsapp group getting most of them in there.

Re: England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind? : Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:45 am  

Mcillorums temperament is a worry, if he gets sinbinned or sent off in a big game, it could cost us big time

Re: England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind? : Fri Sep 30, 2022 12:21 pm  

Do we think if Hardaker hadn't walked out on Wigan he would have got a spot? He's been very, very good in a variety of backline positions for Leeds in the run-in.

But taking that approach to Wigan was always going to be fatal to his chances of getting into a Wane squad.