: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:06 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

whilst everyone says "all the talented kids go to football", then why do we have no talented footballers?

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Good point, well made

More over is that fact that the prime build of athletes suitable for the backs choose football over Rugby League. How they then develop, or not, is a failing of the English youth academies and ironically the fact that ‘technically better’ foreign players keep them out of the side. There will always be a place for and English style centre half or forward (John Terry, Alan Shearer) but filling two positions out of the 11 isn’t enough.

As one poster originally mentioned, the RL clubs should be hanging around the football clubs academies trying to entice the ‘failed’ footballers into taking up RL. A sporting minded 16 – 17 year old lad would still, IMO, be young enough to develop into a decent RL player given the right coaching. He may break into the team a little later but that would be better then not at all.

The biggest issue holding this sort of thing happening is money. An average Championship or even League 1 footballer would still earn more then the majority of RL players so persuading the potential athletes to switch to RL would be extremely hard.

: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:25 pm  

Did anything ever come of this? http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/apr/04/sport.comment1

Did anything ever come of this? http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/apr/04/sport.comment1

: Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:47 pm  

It's a very interesting topic.
Perhaps someone should do a study on this. Perhaps the RFL should employ more researchers to look into issues like this?

: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:34 pm  

Khlav Kalash wrote:

As one poster originally mentioned, the RL clubs should be hanging around the football clubs academies trying to entice the ‘failed’ footballers into taking up RL. A sporting minded 16 – 17 year old lad would still, IMO, be young enough to develop into a decent RL player given the right coaching. He may break into the team a little later but that would be better then not at all.
The biggest issue holding this sort of thing happening is money. An average Championship or even League 1 footballer would still earn more then the majority of RL players so persuading the potential athletes to switch to RL would be extremely hard.

Didnt Ste Tyrer and Matty Smith play football for Wigan and Everton academies was it?

: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:44 pm  

Skills development is neglected in the junior clubs, as af says partly because of the focus on winning but also partly because of the terrible conditions that the junior players face in the winter, when practicing ball skills is an unproductive waste of time. As a result the physically bigger and stronger players ie the forwards stand out. It's only when these players get to professional clubs at the age of 17/18 that there is any real focus on their skills, and even then only at clubs with good junior coaches. Therefore, most of the best players we produce are props or workhorse second rows (rather than ball handlers like Lauitiiiti or Solomona). There is no problem with overseas players taking the place of British youngsters (apart from at Wigan). We just need to switch the junior game to the summer.

: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:07 am  

Marsdengiant wrote:

Also Lawrence / Cudjoe at the Giants.

after watching Huddersfield against Cas in our first friendly those two looked world class,but if Huddersfield don't win anything they won't get noticed.
Lee Smith and Calderwood got picked for England because they play for Leeds and Wigan and played well in ONE GAME!

: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:36 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

That is a chicken and egg argument though - why are those positions usually covered by Aussies in the first place?

IMO technical skill is undervalued relative to strength and effort in sports in England. Essentially, I'm blaming bulldog spirit for our underperforming National teams.

I've thought this for a long time. Every time we balls up a world cup or similar you hear people demanding that we "put some pride back in" and so on. It's the sort of sentiment that got Martin Johnson the England RU job, despite a total lack of coaching experience. Maybe pride isn't the problem. Maybe our being crap is the problem. I can see the same thing happening in our game after the 4 Nations. If we are as poor as we were in the World Cup, people will demand a British coach who can put some passion back in the team, get the old "bulldog spirit" back and so on, and before you know it we've got Paul Sculthorpe or Andy Farrell coaching England without any experience at all.

: Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:11 pm  

It's not just skill levels in the backs but also the players' physical attributes. I passed Calders and Lee Smith during the World Cup and both are pretty small. By comparison the NZ and Aus outside backs tend to be bigger AND faster.

We really seem to struggle to find players of the build and speed of say Keith Senior. Unfortunately when we do get them their skill levels are way behind their Australian counterparts as well.

: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:12 am  

Wellsy13 wrote:

It's a very interesting topic.
Perhaps someone should do a study on this. Perhaps the RFL should employ more researchers to look into issues like this?

I think a fan analysis would yield the same results....and I agree with you, it is an interesting topic.

For years, SL fans have bemoaned the fact that our GB/English backs will be Senior/Gleeson/Gardner etc etc.

There's rarely a moan about Peacock/Graham/Morley being included in squad. Morley gave it a go in NRL & Ellis is out there now.

We have some fantastic backs, but on a world stage they don't compare. I have a lot of respect for Lee Smith, but as a FB he doesn't compare to Billy Slater. But I'd still put Peacock on a par with Civoniceva.

The talent will come. Atkins, Clubb, Fox, Sharp, Cudjoe & Armstrong are superb talents. But at the moment they don't come close to Inglis, Folau, Slater, Williams (David), Tate, Monaghan et al. Eventually....they will.

: Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:49 am  

As much we like to moan about the ‘wrestle’ over in the NRL, IMO the quick PTB in the SL is a bigger concern. The majority of attacking plays we see in the SL are based on a quick PTB, the defence not having time to set and the attacking team exploiting the weakness with broken field runs. Whereas, an NRL defensive line is usually allowed time to set, forcing the attacking team to be creative. It’s no coincidence that the likes of Saints and Leeds can still beat teams comfortably without any creativity in their halves (with long, Borrow, etc. missing), they’ve just got the quick PTB down to a tee.