Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:11 am  

forrard wrote:

are you sure slugger , this is taken from another forum

Re: Interesting stuff from RW
by Gloria » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:19 am

Some serious rumours coming out that Wakefield players are a month behind with wages!

What a load of CRAP

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:21 am  

If the current Bulls organisation manage to raise the funds to pay April's bills, where does that leave us in May, June etc.. and going forward?

BY November / December we will be in the same mess that led us to go cap in hand to the RFL in the first place.

STop the rot now! Let the company as it is now, fold. They tell us theres no debt other than the overdraft (Not sure I believe them!) so will I lose sleep over RBS being a few hundred grand down? NO!

The RFL wont bail this lot out, but I'd bet that they would support, in expertise and financially, a new company that has no involvemnet from the current lot. I am sure in the past theyve even placed directors on boards where clubs have been struggling!

They have, quite directly, by accepting Odsal's lease to cover a loan, secured Rugby League in Bradford. If we folded and the lease was held by the club, the council would sell it off to raise funds, as they are strapped too!

RBS simply saw the club as a bad risk. In todays climate, a company need to be honest with their bankers. we were not.

Hood and the board are to blame. They have been dishonest. An overdraft is a debt. selling Odsal's lease did not make us debt free. we were operating on cash that was not ours! if we were debt free, we would not have an overdraft!

I hope those of you pledging understand that the 500K that may be raised only secures the club in the very short term. Even hood has said they would need between 3-500K more to get to the end of the year. Then what?

We need to listen to the fans whose clubs have been through similar experiences. The wakefield fan (Plastic armadillo??? has been there and we can learn from their experiences. We need to remove the emotion ( to quote MAtthew Elliot) and look at things logically.

A club is based on trust, and I for one, have none in Peter Hood. He has failed at every level and accepts no responsability. He would rather blame everyone else rather than be honest. sometimes in life you have to hold up your hands and say I tried, but I failed. Hood seems incapable of doing this!

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:22 am  

Adeybull wrote:

Those who have confidence in the board, or at least take at face value what they have been told, are likely to be keen to hand the board what money they can.

Those whose confidence in the board has been badly shaken, and/or do not believe they can have been told the whole story, will understandably have more reservations about entrusting the board with their hard-earned cash. At least until and unless they learn more about what the hell so changed between January and now. Changed such that, from being given the clear impression in January that we were financially secure, we are now given the clear understanding that we are days from insolvency.

And in some cases, heart may be for the first, and head the second.

Those who never had confidence in the board in the first place, and believe they were anyway being lied to, will of course be very reluctant to contribute anyway.

Speaking as someone who feels very let down indeed right now, I can fully understand why not everyone is falling over to go down the first route right away. The explanation we have been given seems far from complete to me, and I need to have a much better understanding before I decide how to best to proceed.

This, sums it all up for me

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:31 am  

Bullseye wrote:

I'm in the same place too.

Listening to the fans from Wakey I do wonder if admin might be the way to go. We need a fresh start and maybe admin is the only way to get it?

Back in the mid 80s the T&A ran a series called "The Shame of Odsal" and then chairman Jack Bates said the club were 48hrs from closure. The club was run like a private members club. There were appeals to the fans to come to games to increase attendances but the feeling was that they wanted our money but they didn't want us. There are a lot of paralells with the situation now.

Now we have club officials talking about "the people's team" and appealing for money based on the promise of a "business plan going forward" whatever that means.

For the past 6 years we've been treated like mushrooms by the board (kept in the dark) Despite many assurances and carefully worded replies to questions at fans fora it appears the club have never really been honest about how strapped for cash we actually are. One minute we're told Odsal is a drain on resources, the next it's never been a problem. Now we're up the creek I think the club need to be honest. Let's see the business plan published and see if it stacks up.

Personally I'd be more likely to stump up (and with more cash) if it were for shares. As it is I'm really torn. I want what's best for the club long term, after 32 years of going to Odsal I don't know what I'd do without it. But I simply don't have confidence in the current board. Going into Admin seems to be a gamble and I'm no gambler....

As you can see I'm no further forward!

I want the opportunity to pledge to the club. However, I firmly believe the main impediment to the club moving forward is the combination of board and shareholding. I've argued this for years as you know. We all know what's in the business plan, more cuts, more under investment, more Level 1 HNC Business speak. The reason we're in this boat is because the club lose money because they don't attract investment, sponsorship, because they don't attract quality players, because the fan base is dwindling,,,,,,

This is a tailspin and the longer it lasts the more damage done to the brand in the eyes of fans and sponsors. There is no rainbow, there is only more of the same. It's only a gamble if you think handing over £100 will reap any benefit whatsoever. I don't.

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:35 am  

There are potential investors out there who may be minded to stump up with extra cash above what the Fans pledge, the problem is too many Fans are saying they want a say in the Clubs day to day operation, thats never gonna happen as it's unworkable, we would all like to know how we got to this stage but I suspect that what Peter Hood has been telling us Fans since the other year we need an outside investor, is the reason we are where we are, the economy grinding to a halt has not helped one bit. All anyone can do is invest their hard earned cash if the pledge goes ahead and hope it will kickstart another era for the Club, folk can talk all they want its the money that counts in this no if's or but's.

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:38 am  

I'm with you M@islebugs. I am keeping my hands in my pockets until there is a real need for it. be that in a month, or a year, but at some point a new club is going to have to be formed.

we are not pledging to save rugby league in Bradford. We are pledging to keep the current company, with its incompetant directors afloat! There is a massive difference.

[Bullseye]

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:41 am  

M@islebugs wrote:

The reason we're in this boat is because the club lose money because they don't attract investment, sponsorship, because they don't attract quality players, because the fan base is dwindling,,,,,,

This is a tailspin and the longer it lasts the more damage done to the brand in the eyes of fans and sponsors. There is no rainbow, there is only more of the same. It's only a gamble if you think handing over £100 will reap any benefit whatsoever. I don't.

Unfortunately it all seems to have come to a head over the past 6 years of financial re-structuring, cuts etc. I must say back when Nobby left, Fielden was sold etc I feared where it would all lead and saw paralells with our situation in 1963. It's all happened quicker this time.

Is all the goodwill being used to prop up a lame duck in the current adminstration? I want to believe in them but without more information about their plan I have some major doubts.

I don't want a say in the day to day running of the club but I want some hard evidence that this scheme isn't just postponing the inevitable. Why will this plan work? How is it sustainable?

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:42 am  

Wow, it seems like I started the longest thread EVER

Reading through everything I still find myself conflicted. I want to do by part to support the club that I have loved and supported for more than 40 years. But I'm not at all convinced that a short-term cash injection is the best long term solution for the club.

Here's why....

1. We were sold this years season ticket offer on the basis that it would generate sufficient income for the provision of a full cap spend for 2012. It would now appear that this put us in serious financial problems, with the ground lease sell-off and the big overdraft with RBS.

2. When the ground lease was sold we were clearly told that there was no financial concern, and that the money generated would go into the running of the business. I think its obvious now that there was more going on than we were told at the time.

3. We are getting mixed messages about this current pledge. We need £500K by April 6th, but we need a million by the middle of April. So even if we somehow get to the £500K by the deadline of Good Friday, we still need another similar amount within a couple of weeks of that date. Where is that extra £500K coming from? Surely they cannot expect the same fans to pledge another £100?

4. We are told that the current directors have a coherent business plan to move forward, debt free, from April onwards. But we've been given absolutely zero details about the content of that plan - and I think we deserve to have at least the 'broad strokes' if we are to stump up our money. For example does the plan include retaining our excellent youngsters on long term contracts, or are the likes of Elliot Whitehead being put on long term contracts simply to inflate their transfer value at the end of the season? There's a whole lot of questions we need answering about the future plans that simply haven't been addressed yet.

The reality is that I'll probably 'fall soft' and make a pledge later - simply because there might not be another better alternative. In other words, its the lesser of two evils.

But I'm far from happy about it

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:45 am  

forrard wrote:

are you sure slugger , this is taken from another forum

Re: Interesting stuff from RW
by Gloria » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:19 am

Some serious rumours coming out that Wakefield players are a month behind with wages!

Incorrect information there i'm afraid, as much as that probably upsets you.

[Bullseye]

Re: Peter Hood says Bulls on brink of going bust. : Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:45 am  

paulwalker71 wrote:

Wow, it seems like I started the longest thread EVER

Reading through everything I still find myself conflicted. I want to do by part to support the club that I have loved and supported for more than 40 years. But I'm not at all convinced that a short-term cash injection is the best long term solution for the club.

Here's why....

1. We were sold this years season ticket offer on the basis that it would generate sufficient income for the provision of a full cap spend for 2012. It would now appear that this put us in serious financial problems, with the ground lease sell-off and the big overdraft with RBS.

2. When the ground lease was sold we were clearly told that there was no financial concern, and that the money generated would go into the running of the business. I think its obvious now that there was more going on than we were told at the time.

3. We are getting mixed messages about this current pledge. We need £500K by April 6th, but we need a million by the middle of April. So even if we somehow get to the £500K by the deadline of Good Friday, we still need another similar amount within a couple of weeks of that date. Where is that extra £500K coming from? Surely they cannot expect the same fans to pledge another £100?

4. We are told that the current directors have a coherent business plan to move forward, debt free, from April onwards. But we've been given absolutely zero details about the content of that plan - and I think we deserve to have at least the 'broad strokes' if we are to stump up our money. For example does the plan include retaining our excellent youngsters on long term contracts, or are the likes of Elliot Whitehead being put on long term contracts simply to inflate their transfer value at the end of the season? There's a whole lot of questions we need answering about the future plans that simply haven't been addressed yet.

The reality is that I'll probably 'fall soft' and make a pledge later - simply because there might not be another better alternative. In other words, its the lesser of two evils.

But I'm far from happy about it

Sums up my thoughts exactly Paul!