Stats from last night : Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:48 am  

Stats from last night are here: http://www.superleague.co.uk/report/11950 Few things of note: Walmsley, Amor, Savelio and Richards made 200, 117, 103 and 76 metres respectively. Walmsley and Savelio have been playing well all year, but I said after the Hull FC game that our halfbacks would continue to look poor if our props didn't all stand up, and they all really stood up last night. Amor made more metres vs Leeds than Amor, Masoe and Richards made combined against Hull! Our left side still misses a lot of tackles, with Jones missing 5 and Wilkin missing 7 (though in fairness he did make 39). As a unit though we look stronger with Jones at centre I think (despite Keinhorst's try last night). Walsh's defence has improved since having Jones as his centre, averaging less than 2 missed tackles a game. Looking at the matches Walsh played with Turner as his centre, only twice did he have less than 2 misses. We offloaded a lot more than previous games. Before this game we were averaging just over 8 offloads a game, last night we threw 13. On the flip side of this, before this game we were averaging just under 9 errors, whereas last night this was 13. Seems to be worth the risk on the basis of last night though.

Stats from last night are here: http://www.superleague.co.uk/report/11950 Few things of note: Walmsley, Amor, Savelio and Richards made 200, 117, 103 and 76 metres respectively. Walmsley and Savelio have been playing well all year, but I said after the Hull FC game that our halfbacks would continue to look poor if our props didn't all stand up, and they all really stood up last night. Amor made more metres vs Leeds than Amor, Masoe and Richards made combined against Hull! Our left side still misses a lot of tackles, with Jones missing 5 and Wilkin missing 7 (though in fairness he did make 39). As a unit though we look stronger with Jones at centre I think (despite Keinhorst's try last night). Walsh's defence has improved since having Jones as his centre, averaging less than 2 missed tackles a game. Looking at the matches Walsh played with Turner as his centre, only twice did he have less than 2 misses. We offloaded a lot more than previous games. Before this game we were averaging just over 8 offloads a game, last night we threw 13. On the flip side of this, before this game we were averaging just under 9 errors, whereas last night this was 13. Seems to be worth the risk on the basis of last night though.

Re: Stats from last night : Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:33 am  

Saint #1 wrote: Stats from last night are here: http://www.superleague.co.uk/report/11950 Few things of note: Walmsley, Amor, Savelio and Richards made 200, 117, 103 and 76 metres respectively. Walmsley and Savelio have been playing well all year, but I said after the Hull FC game that our halfbacks would continue to look poor if our props didn't all stand up, and they all really stood up last night. Amor made more metres vs Leeds than Amor, Masoe and Richards made combined against Hull! Our left side still misses a lot of tackles, with Jones missing 5 and Wilkin missing 7 (though in fairness he did make 39). As a unit though we look stronger with Jones at centre I think (despite Keinhorst's try last night). Walsh's defence has improved since having Jones as his centre, averaging less than 2 missed tackles a game. Looking at the matches Walsh played with Turner as his centre, only twice did he have less than 2 misses. We offloaded a lot more than previous games. Before this game we were averaging just over 8 offloads a game, last night we threw 13. On the flip side of this, before this game we were averaging just under 9 errors, whereas last night this was 13. Seems to be worth the risk on the basis of last night though. The props worked more as a unit last night with Sav, Amor, alex and Richsrds sharing the work load and not just relying on big alex. Amor is better when he plays more mins and sav is getting better and better against the "bigger clubs". As ive said all year, we need to take Mose out and let the props work as a unit. We looked much better in the front row last night agsinst a good front row in garbutt, peacock, cuthbertson and co. I wouldn't pick mose again if we keep our pack fit.

Saint #1 wrote: Stats from last night are here: http://www.superleague.co.uk/report/11950 Few things of note: Walmsley, Amor, Savelio and Richards made 200, 117, 103 and 76 metres respectively. Walmsley and Savelio have been playing well all year, but I said after the Hull FC game that our halfbacks would continue to look poor if our props didn't all stand up, and they all really stood up last night. Amor made more metres vs Leeds than Amor, Masoe and Richards made combined against Hull! Our left side still misses a lot of tackles, with Jones missing 5 and Wilkin missing 7 (though in fairness he did make 39). As a unit though we look stronger with Jones at centre I think (despite Keinhorst's try last night). Walsh's defence has improved since having Jones as his centre, averaging less than 2 missed tackles a game. Looking at the matches Walsh played with Turner as his centre, only twice did he have less than 2 misses. We offloaded a lot more than previous games. Before this game we were averaging just over 8 offloads a game, last night we threw 13. On the flip side of this, before this game we were averaging just under 9 errors, whereas last night this was 13. Seems to be worth the risk on the basis of last night though. The props worked more as a unit last night with Sav, Amor, alex and Richsrds sharing the work load and not just relying on big alex. Amor is better when he plays more mins and sav is getting better and better against the "bigger clubs". As ive said all year, we need to take Mose out and let the props work as a unit. We looked much better in the front row last night agsinst a good front row in garbutt, peacock, cuthbertson and co. I wouldn't pick mose again if we keep our pack fit.

Re: Stats from last night : Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:18 pm  

St pete wrote:

The props worked more as a unit last night with Sav, Amor, alex and Richsrds sharing the work load and not just relying on big alex.

Amor is better when he plays more mins and sav is getting better and better against the "bigger clubs".

As ive said all year, we need to take Mose out and let the props work as a unit. We looked much better in the front row last night agsinst a good front row in garbutt, peacock, cuthbertson and co.

I wouldn't pick mose again if we keep our pack fit.

Yeah I agree. I think starting Walmsley on the bench works, because it means other props HAVE to lead and put their hand up to start with. Mose COULD have a good game and break loads of tackles if picked, he's certainly capable. However on the basis of this year, it's much more likely he'll make 5 carries in 80 minutes.

Re: Stats from last night : Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:55 pm  

Saint #1 wrote:

Yeah I agree. I think starting Walmsley on the bench works, because it means other props HAVE to lead and put their hand up to start with. Mose COULD have a good game and break loads of tackles if picked, he's certainly capable. However on the basis of this year, it's much more likely he'll make 5 carries in 80 minutes.

Exactly and he wasn't much better last year either. Very average sigining and very very half hearted lazy player who won't put his body on the line for the team.

Re: Stats from last night : Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:10 am  

But Mose does have that x factor. Sure if he's not bothered, then he's a drain on the team, but when he wants to bring his A game, he is pretty devastating.

Players like that will always get picked for big games as if they bring their best then they are the game breakers you need for those occasions, were as slow and steady will always be slow and steady and will not break a game.

It also depends on whether you have faith in the coaching staff, they say he has been carrying a leg injury. If that's the case then a leg injury will effect any players performance. ie Walsh

Mose was playing well a month or two back, but then seems to have been off the boil (like the rest of the team).

Maybe the coaching staff should have rested him earlier, rather than just playing him regardless of fitness.

Re: Stats from last night : Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:49 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

But Mose does have that x factor. Sure if he's not bothered, then he's a drain on the team, but when he wants to bring his A game, he is pretty devastating.

Players like that will always get picked for big games as if they bring their best then they are the game breakers you need for those occasions, were as slow and steady will always be slow and steady and will not break a game.

It also depends on whether you have faith in the coaching staff, they say he has been carrying a leg injury. If that's the case then a leg injury will effect any players performance. ie Walsh

Mose was playing well a month or two back, but then seems to have been off the boil (like the rest of the team).

Maybe the coaching staff should have rested him earlier, rather than just playing him regardless of fitness.

He's not got the X factor at all. His only asset is he's big and 90% of the time he doesn't run his size. He's a average prop at best that on his day can be pretty good but them days don't come around very often.

He's not a team player at all and puts extra work Load on the pack as the guy only does 10 min spells and very rare he makes 8 carries per game and never ever makes one on one tackles. Every tackle is 2nd or 3rd man.

The front row worked as a unit on Friday and we shared the work load out much better than when we have a big fat pudding sat on the bench or walking around with his hands on hips letting the other lads run their blood to water.


Id never pick him again unless we get injurues. Imo he's behind Amor, alex, Sav, Richsrds, Thompson and Id even go with LMS before him. It's a team game and in semi finals rugby we can't carry players. It's like playing with 16 men every week.

Re: Stats from last night : Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:21 am  

St pete wrote:

Id never pick him again unless we get injurues. Imo he's behind Amor, alex, Sav, Richsrds, Thompson and Id even go with LMS before him. It's a team game and in semi finals rugby we can't carry players. It's like playing with 16 men every week.

I would still pick him, if used correctly like Beware Shadows says he can be pretty devastating and a game changer. When you look at his games in the NRL he seems a lot more effective and energised, over here in super league he gets a pass flat footed and very rarely gets second phase ball in the game plan using him as a decoy instead. Its frustrating for both player and coach that his impact is so few and far between.

We do play 16 men every week regardless if Mose is in the team or not.

Re: Stats from last night : Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:59 am  

St pete wrote:

He's not got the X factor at all. His only asset is he's big and 90% of the time he doesn't run his size. He's a average prop at best that on his day can be pretty good but them days don't come around very often.

He's not a team player at all and puts extra work Load on the pack as the guy only does 10 min spells and very rare he makes 8 carries per game and never ever makes one on one tackles. Every tackle is 2nd or 3rd man.

The front row worked as a unit on Friday and we shared the work load out much better than when we have a big fat pudding sat on the bench or walking around with his hands on hips letting the other lads run their blood to water.


Id never pick him again unless we get injurues. Imo he's behind Amor, alex, Sav, Richsrds, Thompson and Id even go with LMS before him. It's a team game and in semi finals rugby we can't carry players. It's like playing with 16 men every week.

I wouldn't disagree with the majority of what you have put but one thing that stats don't measure is the intimidation factor that some players bring to a team and for me Mose brings this by the bucket load. One example that springs to mind was straight after he came on against Wigan and banged McIllorum twice, OK he gave a penalty away (first tackle anyway) but he certainly made his presence felt & picked out their main protagonist to prove his point.

Before he came to Saints last year this was a main gripe from a lot of fans that other teams use to intimidate our pack and we were a bit soft when it came to the tough stuff up the middle.

Re: Stats from last night : Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:20 am  

curly990 wrote:

I wouldn't disagree with the majority of what you have put but one thing that stats don't measure is the intimidation factor that some players bring to a team and for me Mose brings this by the bucket load. One example that springs to mind was straight after he came on against Wigan and banged McIllorum twice, OK he gave a penalty away (first tackle anyway) but he certainly made his presence felt & picked out their main protagonist to prove his point.

Before he came to Saints last year this was a main gripe from a lot of fans that other teams use to intimidate our pack and we were a bit soft when it came to the tough stuff up the middle.

I agree what your saying and teams do need a physically imposing player but is Mose one? I'm not so sure. Yes ive seen him dominate but ive also seen him get battered and he doesn't like it. The min he gets blood he goes into his shell and goes missing.

Re: Stats from last night : Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:35 am  

St pete wrote:

I agree what your saying and teams do need a physically imposing player but is Mose one? I'm not so sure. Yes ive seen him dominate but ive also seen him get battered and he doesn't like it. The min he gets blood he goes into his shell and goes missing.

He did seem to clam up in the CC semi after that hit from Leulieu (sp) but on the other hand after that nasty clash of heads with Amor the other week he did play on (I think).

I like the fact that in last seasons grand final he put a first big hit on the Wigan pack (OK giving a penalty away again) but after Lance got cleaned out, Wellens went charging in and grabbed hold of Flower but it was Mose who came running in with his right hand cocked and gave out some much needed retribution and although i don't think he connected the intention was still there.