Champions from 5th : Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:02 pm  

Leeds are on the brink of winning a 2nd league in a row from an unfavourable position. Some say it makes a mockery of our season.

I've expressed my dissatisfaction at the play offs because of both the set up (for the past two years we've had two PO fixtures in a row against the same club), but mainly because they let in 8 teams out of a 14 team league.

My preference would be the original 5 team set up that we had in the '90s, but let me ask you, do you think it more or less likely that Leeds could pull it out of the bag from 5th in that scenario?

1st Wigan
2nd Wire 3rd Saints
4th Cats 5th Leeds

Week 1, Game 1: 4th vs 5th (loser out), Game 2:2nd vs 3rd
Week 2, Game 3: winner of game 1 plays loser of game 2 (loser out), Game 4: 1st plays winner of game 2 (winner to GF)
Week 3, Game 5: Winner of game 3 vs loser game 4 (winner to GF, loser out)
Week 4, GF: Winner game 4 vs winner game 5

I'm pretty sure that this set up means that no matter what position you finish in, you have to beat EVERY team that finishes above you if you want to lift the trophy at Old Trafford. You couldn't deny them the right to call themselves premiers if they did that, could you?
If Leeds win on Saturday, instead of beating teams placed 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th they have beaten 1st, 2nd, 4th and 8th. Would that make any difference to them?

Re: Champions from 5th : Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:06 pm  

I dont know If It would have made any difference to Leeds but top eight Is pants.
Top five Is the way to go,but we wont. Tail wags the dog when It comes to Rugby League.

Re: Champions from 5th : Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:21 pm  

I don't have a problem with it at all. People just need to get beyond the league table idea.

Leeds aren't deliberately messing about during the season, they aren't that good to be able to switch on and off like that. What they do have is an outstanding, legendary even, set of senior professionals who step up when it matters and use their swimming pool of experience to get them through.

Finishing 5th means an easy home game, then two very difficult away games. They scraped past Catalans, a game that could easily have been us, which would have put them in a tight spot. Then they went to Wigan. Again, it wasn't by some devious plan plotted early in the season that they won the game. Tomkins being out was the reason they won, they would have lost had he played.

They may pull it off and win it again from 5th. If they do it just further entrenches those players like Sinfield, McGuire, Burrow and Peacock into legend. It would be an outstanding achievement again. I don't see it happening though, I'm expecting a similar game to the cup final, tight at first but Leeds will tire and Warrington will swamp them and win by 18 points or so.

Most times though, the team finishing 5th would find it very difficult to win those two away games AND then go on to win at Old Trafford. It's not a very smart way to plan a season.

Re: Champions from 5th : Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:57 pm  

The best team in the best form and in the best shape fitness-wise come September will win at O/T every season. It doesn't matter where that team finishes in the league so long as it's somewhere in the top 8 - they'll still win it. Home or away advantage counts for far, far, far less in the playoffs than a team's basic quality and form does. 1st or 2nd place offers no real advantage over 7th or 8th as far as aiding teams in getting to the final is concerned. Any way you look at it this system makes the 27 league games leading up to it completely futile and RL into a laughing stock.

Re: Champions from 5th : Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:44 pm  

I've always thought the 5 team play off is the best by far. There is a clear advantage/disadvantage for each of the 5 finishing positions.

Also (and I stand to be corrected here because it's nearly 5 o'clock and my brain is fading and it does seem counterintuitive) with the 5 team setup the team in 5th has to play more games to win it then they do in the set up with 8 teams. Please tell me I haven't got that wrong...

Re: Champions from 5th : Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:48 pm  

Offside Monkey wrote:

Leeds are on the brink of winning a 2nd league in a row from an unfavourable position. Some say it makes a mockery of our season.

I've expressed my dissatisfaction at the play offs because of both the set up (for the past two years we've had two PO fixtures in a row against the same club), but mainly because they let in 8 teams out of a 14 team league.

My preference would be the original 5 team set up that we had in the '90s, but let me ask you, do you think it more or less likely that Leeds could pull it out of the bag from 5th in that scenario?

1st Wigan
2nd Wire 3rd Saints
4th Cats 5th Leeds

Week 1, Game 1: 4th vs 5th (loser out), Game 2:2nd vs 3rd
Week 2, Game 3: winner of game 1 plays loser of game 2 (loser out), Game 4: 1st plays winner of game 2 (winner to GF)
Week 3, Game 5: Winner of game 3 vs loser game 4 (winner to GF, loser out)
Week 4, GF: Winner game 4 vs winner game 5

I'm pretty sure that this set up means that no matter what position you finish in, you have to beat EVERY team that finishes above you if you want to lift the trophy at Old Trafford. You couldn't deny them the right to call themselves premiers if they did that, could you?
If Leeds win on Saturday, instead of beating teams placed 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th they have beaten 1st, 2nd, 4th and 8th. Would that make any difference to them?

I'm with you OF, the current system doesn't reward consistency. I can't understand why the Aussies adopted our system!

Re: Champions from 5th : Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:03 pm  

Top league should be rewarded with going straight to the grand final

2nd Vs 5th
3rd Vs 4th

Winners of them play and whoever wins out of that goes to grand final

Re: Champions from 5th : Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:00 pm  

longysaints wrote:

Top league should be rewarded with going straight to the grand final

2nd Vs 5th
3rd Vs 4th

Winners of them play and whoever wins out of that goes to grand final

Wouldn't the finalist that finished 1st have to wait two weeks until the final?

Don't forget, the clubs voted for this top 8 system as its all about money. In the above system the team finishing top would lose out due to not playing in the play offs, the team finishing 2nd will play two games at home.

It's all about money, the clubs want itcasvit makes them money.

Re: Champions from 5th : Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:07 pm  

If we all campaign hard enough to make the RFL accept Wigan as the champions maybe they will listen.

Re: Champions from 5th : Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:14 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

If we all campaign hard enough to make the RFL accept Wigan as the champions maybe they will listen.

They've probably already done it as part of the ridiculous concessions to keep Sam Tomkins in the sport, like waiving the salary cap.