Half way point almost : Sun May 06, 2012 6:41 am  

Well it's almost half way through this years league and what a much tighter league we have had.

There is still some imbalance in the games as 4 teams have a game in hand, but either way whether we are 6th or 7th, we are 5 points away from top spot. That to me seams alot tighter than previous years, with the top 8 all taking points off each other.

I feel we are not as out of the running this year as many have predicted and for a change each week the top of the league does not look the same which is nice.

I would have posted this after the middle game, but given that it would be Leeds for the 2nd time, it's a bit more balanced at the moment.

Re: Half way point almost : Sun May 06, 2012 6:53 am  

We are certainly not out of the running at all, and our performances against Leeds and Warrington showed on our day we are more than a match for anyone. The loss to Wigan was disappointing, but the play off games against them last year showed we can turn them over. I do feel that if we are going to win anything we will need to be absolutely on top of our game, at anything less we would get turned over by any of the top teams, unlike on the past when we could afford to play below our best and still win. This year every team in the top 8 has a realistic chance of silverware

Re: Half way point almost : Sun May 06, 2012 7:43 am  

SomersetSaint wrote:

We are certainly not out of the running at all, and our performances against Leeds and Warrington showed on our day we are more than a match for anyone. The loss to Wigan was disappointing, but the play off games against them last year showed we can turn them over. I do feel that if we are going to win anything we will need to be absolutely on top of our game, at anything less we would get turned over by any of the top teams, unlike on the past when we could afford to play below our best and still win. This year every team in the top 8 has a realistic chance of silverware

I just feel we ain't capable of wining big games. I know we've beat Leeds and Warrington but in tight games I don't think we have the x factor players to pull it off.

I think Wigan, Catalan , hudds and Warrington are much better than us, they have pace and power all over the park and that's something I feel brown is looking at for 2013.

I think we are on par with Leeds and hull this year and will battle for 5th spot which IMO a big step backwards and has to be seen a terrible season.

I can't honestly see us winning any of the next three games, I fear for us in the two Wigan games as we just can't handle the way they play rugby. The way they move that ball wide with dummy runners/options we struggle big time and our attack isn't as good as id like against Wigan.

I'm not bagging saints as the improvement has been massive from how we started the season but it's clear we are 3/4 good players off being a top side again. We struggle in the halves with lance hohaia basically going missing, we miss a strike player out wide and also lack some grunt in the pack.

With the play off conception we will always be in with a shout but IMHO I can't see us making Wembley or old Trafford.

Roll on 2013!

Re: Half way point almost : Sun May 06, 2012 8:36 am  

When you look at our team 2012 this is the weakest we,ve had in Superleague so far. The half back combination is still experimental and our pack has yet to dominate for 80 mins in the game. Our big win against Leeds is not a measure of what we are capable of because Leeds were so poor and made us in a way look too good.

Not checked the stats but we don,t seem to have a good offloading game anymore, we rely too much on Roby and Soliola. On a positive note, in my opinion Wellens is having a great season now and is still one of the best full backs in the UK at the moment, also noticed Flanagan is having more presence in the team and providing some good contribution in attack and defence.

Of the top 4 in Wigan, Huddersfield, Catalans and Warrington can,t see these team losing 3 more games than Saints in the remaining 13 games. So this would mean 5th or 6th this season and no grand final...........next season perhaps.

Re: Half way point almost : Sun May 06, 2012 8:53 am  

Judder Man wrote:

When you look at our team 2012 this is the weakest we,ve had in Superleague so far. The half back combination is still experimental and our pack has yet to dominate for 80 mins in the game.

I'm not convinced that this years team is worse than last years. Yes we have lost graham who is a massive hole to fill. We also lost pryce and eastmond, but to be fair, that weren't a part of last years team. Moore was as much a liability as an asset. Added to last years team are laffranchi who has been a good buy, flanaghamn who is ok, and soliola who really didn't figure at all last year. For me, our big problem is hohaia who I like as a person an works his socks off pn the pitch, but isn't tge solution to our hb problem, and will be a chock stone for 4 years. Sadly, I think we need to offload him, even if it costs is money, to be able to move forward. I belove that a proper scrim half would make all the difference to saints, a Danny brough or finch is the missing part in our jigsaw and would make the rest of the team tick

Re: Half way point almost : Sun May 06, 2012 9:03 am  

St pete wrote:

I just feel we ain't capable of wining big games. I know we've beat Leeds and Warrington but in tight games I don't think we have the x factor players to pull it off.

I think Wigan, Catalan , hudds and Warrington are much better than us, they have pace and power all over the park and that's something I feel brown is looking at for 2013.

I think we are on par with Leeds and hull this year and will battle for 5th spot which IMO a big step backwards and has to be seen a terrible season.

I can't honestly see us winning any of the next three games, I fear for us in the two Wigan games as we just can't handle the way they play rugby. The way they move that ball wide with dummy runners/options we struggle big time and our attack isn't as good as id like against Wigan.

I'm not bagging saints as the improvement has been massive from how we started the season but it's clear we are 3/4 good players off being a top side again. We struggle in the halves with lance hohaia basically going missing, we miss a strike player out wide and also lack some grunt in the pack.

With the play off conception we will always be in with a shout but IMHO I can't see us making Wembley or old Trafford.

Roll on 2013!

The thing is though if you look at our games against the top sides, they are not miles infront of us.
Catalan we should have won, last second of the match try and goal denied us.
Huddersfield 1 point and we did not play well.
Warrington we beat.
Wigan (well I did not see the game) but even then if Wigan had lost a half back after 15 mins would they have still beaten us?

I don't see a major difference in these sides, each side has a few special players, a few decent academy prospects and some players to make up the ranks. Wigan are looking slighty more potent and maybe that is telling when you look at their halves compared to the rest. Everyone else is very similar on the points difference. I can see Wigan losing and I can see them losing to us. In a way I would rather play them early in the cup rather than later.

Re: Half way point almost : Sun May 06, 2012 9:10 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

The thing is though if you look at our games against the top sides, they are not miles infront of us.
Catalan we should have won, last second of the match try and goal denied us.
Huddersfield 1 point and we did not play well.
Warrington we beat.
Wigan (well I did not see the game) but even then if Wigan had lost a half back after 15 mins would they have still beaten us?

I don't see a major difference in these sides, each side has a few special players, a few decent academy prospects and some players to make up the ranks. Wigan are looking slighty more potent and maybe that is telling when you look at their halves compared to the rest. Everyone else is very similar on the points difference. I can see Wigan losing and I can see them losing to us. In a way I would rather play them early in the cup rather than later.

Basically you've just posted the same post but in different words.

I posted we can't win tight games like the hull, Catalan, hudds games as we lack that x factor player.

Wigan just took us to pieces!

I think we are behind hudds, Catalan, Warrington and Wigan and can't see us finishing above any of them which leaves us fighting with Leeds and hull for 5th, 6th and 7th which I'm sure every saints fan will see as a poor season and a massive step backwards.

Re: Half way point almost : Sun May 06, 2012 10:18 am  

The Wigan cup match will i think give us a good indication of our competitiveness when in a real do or die situation.

At the time of the Wigan league match i had suspicions that we may fall flat due to it being the third big game on the bounce.
This is of course what happened with Wigan completely dominating the game and Saints looking flat and lacking enthusiasm.

I dont have concerns re the pack as they have shown they can handle other big packs despite the absence of Jammer. My issue is that we still lack the pace to score from any distance in the three quarters.
Teams therefore know that if you employ a good kick chase game and then have a blitz defence against Saints when they are in their own half, that Saints offensive capabilities are neutralised, because even if Saints get the overlap, they are unlikely to go more than 30 metres before getting caught.

Saints are still dangerous because we are very good round the ruck area, with Roby scooting and the forwards being skilful and mobile. Starting with Daniel Anderson we built a team around this method and it has served us well over the years. However to some extent i think we have built sides solely along those lines, to the detriment of overall game flexibility, and this is what i think has caught us out in the grand finals, especially when playing against sides with a more balanced overall game which values the importance of pacey threequarters.

Re: Half way point almost : Sun May 06, 2012 10:38 am  

The Chair Maker wrote:

The Wigan cup match will i think give us a good indication of our competitiveness when in a real do or die situation.

At the time of the Wigan league match i had suspicions that we may fall flat due to it being the third big game on the bounce.
This is of course what happened with Wigan completely dominating the game and Saints looking flat and lacking enthusiasm.

I dont have concerns re the pack as they have shown they can handle other big packs despite the absence of Jammer. My issue is that we still lack the pace to score from any distance in the three quarters.
Teams therefore know that if you employ a good kick chase game and then have a blitz defence against Saints when they are in their own half, that Saints offensive capabilities are neutralised, because even if Saints get the overlap, they are unlikely to go more than 30 metres before getting caught.

Saints are still dangerous because we are very good round the ruck area, with Roby scooting and the forwards being skilful and mobile. Starting with Daniel Anderson we built a team around this method and it has served us well over the years. However to some extent i think we have built sides solely along those lines, to the detriment of overall game flexibility, and this is what i think has caught us out in the grand finals, especially when playing against sides with a more balanced overall game which values the importance of pacey threequarters.

Our pack can hold its own but I dont think it can out bully and dominate certain packs this year which IMO will be problem next week.

I agree, we are to dependant on winning games round the ruck so if teams can contain roby we have trouble breaking teams down.

Re: Half way point almost : Sun May 06, 2012 10:41 am  

I'm struggling to see where this idea of a great pack for Saints is coming from. I was watching Hull's forwards closely last night and I don't know of any Saints forwards - bar perhaps Laffranchi and of course Robes - who drives forward like theirs did. Their pack was immense. So was Wigan's against us. Both would flatten ours. We go to ground very quickly and don't appear to have the strength or drive or aggression or whatever is needed to push the opposition back. I'm not counting the last few games here because our opposition has been flimsy. I'm thinking of the games where we have played opposition who we expect to challenge us.

Personally I don't think we will get very far this season although hopefully I'm wrong. We have pretty much everyone fit with probably only Wilkin who we are really missing (TP tends to be hit and miss in terms of value to our forward pack). Having Meli on the wing, for instance, gives me recurring nightmares the minute the opposition drifts in his direction and with all our young players last season came a level of enthusiasm I have yet to see in our team this year, bar perhaps against Leeds (although whether that was enthusiasm or shock I don't know!).

I think we are still missing Jammer's fire and leadership on the pitch. We are prone to losing focus, playing to one side, playing one up and switching off in defence. Without his presence to reinforce our direction and kick the team in the collective pants, I just don't think we have it.

Unless the coaching staff manage to turn things around significantly in training this week, our performance against Wakefield looks ominously like a defeat on Saturday. I'm still going to the match, mind. But nothing that I saw on Friday night reassured me that we are a team chomping at the bit to bash Wigan into next week or indeed one that has the necessary ability to be in a position to do so.