Up Against It On Saturday - Come On The S! : Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:34 pm  

Following on from my esteemed colleague's post.

The Chair Maker wrote:

The positive thing from Saints perspective is making a grand final without hardly ever having two fit halves, often playing matches with effectively just 15 fit players in the squad. Even against Hudds we went into the first half with only 12 men on the pitch and in the second half we were down one rotation player.

Put it this way. IF we do defeat Wigan in the final. It will be one of the greatest victories ever.

We were up against it on Saturday anyway with our casualties list and it's just gotten that little bit harder. No doubt about it, Wigoon have been the strongest defence in the competition and usually the strongest defence comes out on top in the Grand Final. Their speed around the ruck is a lot greater than our's and attacking wise they have more options with our halves being out injured. Add to that a tremendous performance against Leeds where Wigoon's scrambling defence was sensational and they have put themsevles in the driving seat.

If all that wasn't enough the tragic news of Terry Newton and the impending minute's silence tips the odds very strongly in their favour. Wigoon would not need motivating much anyway because having blown the advantage the minor premierhip gave them they will be battling hard to make sure they don't lose out again. Add to that the fact that they can and will probably use the tragic Newton news as motivation/inspiration for Saturday it makes it even harder for us.

It doesn't end there though. Rightly or wrongly, we're now likely to have a minute's silence for a former Wigan player who also came from the town and continued to live there up until his tragic end. Can you imagine how inspiring and motivating that is going to be for Wigoon? They're all stood there having used Newton as inspiration during their training sessions and then on the biggest occasion of all they have a full minute to reflect on how much winning this trophy means. You might as well give them a ten point start.

Can we do it? Well if any team can then we are the team that I can see doing it. We have the forwards that can push them on the back foot and negate the advantage their wrestling can bring them. With Smith we have the potential for having a kicking game which can also help to keep them pinged in their own half. Both of these factors will be critical if we are to succeed. Will we benefit if the rain comes down? I think we will. Wigoon do not have anything like the power we have in our forwards and if we can convert our chances we will be exceptionally difficult to beat.

What other factors are likely to favour us? Well if Wigoon play the ball quickly, like any team (including us) they will be very difficult to stop. However, they are prone to handling errors and have shown a lack of composure in the big game and this is a very big game. Now, with the Newton tragedy, there is far more pressure and expectation on them. Before the Newton story the pressure was on us with KC's final game and now it's transferred onto them. They are now odds on favourites and I expect those odds to shorten even further.

It is an impossible mission but I believe we have the game and resilience to beat these guys. We have been written off so many times this season and by so many different supporters (including our own) and thanks to Mick Potter's ability to get that extra yard out of us when it has been required we have proven the doubters wrong. There is every possibility that Wigoon's defence may prove too strong for us without our halves but one thing is for sure, we have some big juggernaut engines up front and even if you slow us down we'll keep coming at you. This is probably the gutsiest Saints team I have ever seen. Fielden et al need quick play the balls to make their yards up front so if we can keep them down in the same way they will keep us down we will have a very good shot at making this the biggest Grand Final shock for many a year. Standby for what will be our greatest triumph.

Come on The S!

Re: Up Against It On Saturday - Come On The S! : Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:47 pm  

The Terry Newton incident aside (who knows what effect that will have), I think it's a lot more even than you suggest.

Wigan's defence was very impressive on Saturday, but let's not forget they were playing against a side that was three props and a half-back down. I think we will be subjecting Wigan's defensive system to a good deal more pressure than Leeds managed to. Not having Pryce or Eastmond is a major blow, but at least Smith has the potential to give us something that we've not had in the last three grand finals - a composed kicking game.

You're right about Wigan's strengths though. Their ruck speed and line speed are sensational. We've go to knock some of that gusto out of them early doors, and get enough yards forward early in our sets so that they're not right on top of us when the dummy half recieves the ball. No easy task, but we do have a pack that is capable of this.

Re: Up Against It On Saturday - Come On The S! : Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:54 pm  

Dux wrote:

The Terry Newton incident aside (who knows what effect that will have), I think it's a lot more even than you suggest.

Wigan's defence was very impressive on Saturday, but let's not forget they were playing against a side that was three props and a half-back down. I think we will be subjecting Wigan's defensive system to a good deal more pressure than Leeds managed to. Not having Pryce or Eastmond is a major blow, but at least Smith has the potential to give us something that we've not had in the last three grand finals - a composed kicking game.

You're right about Wigan's strengths though. Their ruck speed and line speed are sensational. We've go to knock some of that gusto out of them early doors, and get enough yards forward early in our sets so that they're not right on top of us when the dummy half recieves the ball. No easy task, but we do have a pack that is capable of this.

Yes! I can feel the tide rising!

Re: Up Against It On Saturday - Come On The S! : Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:06 pm  

I don't believe the Terry Newton tragedy will have a bearing. Few of those players will have ever played with him and if they did know him, it could just easily work the opposite way, with their mental focus being elsewhere. We too have motivation in wanting to win it for KC so let's not drag sentiment into it. A team is going to win it because they are the better team.

You make it sound like our casualty list sees us going into the game as the walking wounded. In reality, the squad has never been fitter or more prepared all season. Yes, I know we have both first choice half backs missing and that could be crucial but we also have a better 'in game' kicker now than we had with either Pryce or Eastmond. Given the fact that to win this game the key is going to be to play them in their half of the field, then this could well work for us rather than against us. Apart from that we have a full quota to pick from throughout the three quarters and the forwards. We are actually having to leave players out who have played a lot this season because there is simply no room for them in the nineteen.

Wigan are undeniably a faster and more slick outfit than us. We rely on barging our way over the line to a large extent and that makes them favourites, but only slight ones. For me, the weather is the key again. For once, we want it to rain at Old Trafford. If it does, in my eyes, that turns us from slight underdogs into slight favourites. If their backs get too much ball, we will probably lose. If it turns into a forward battle, I think we will win.

Re: Up Against It On Saturday - Come On The S! : Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:18 pm  

i agree that the weather will play its part, a rainy cold night will definitely suit us over wigan

Re: Up Against It On Saturday - Come On The S! : Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:27 pm  

D.D. wrote:

I don't believe the Terry Newton tragedy will have a bearing. Few of those players will have ever played with him and if they did know him, it could just easily work the opposite way, with their mental focus being elsewhere. We too have motivation in wanting to win it for KC so let's not drag sentiment into it. A team is going to win it because they are the better team.

You make it sound like our casualty list sees us going into the game as the walking wounded. In reality, the squad has never been fitter or more prepared all season. Yes, I know we have both first choice half backs missing and that could be crucial but we also have a better 'in game' kicker now than we had with either Pryce or Eastmond. Given the fact that to win this game the key is going to be to play them in their half of the field, then this could well work for us rather than against us. Apart from that we have a full quota to pick from throughout the three quarters and the forwards. We are actually having to leave players out who have played a lot this season because there is simply no room for them in the nineteen.

Wigan are undeniably a faster and more slick outfit than us. We rely on barging our way over the line to a large extent and that makes them favourites, but only slight ones. For me, the weather is the key again. For once, we want it to rain at Old Trafford. If it does, in my eyes, that turns us from slight underdogs into slight favourites. If their backs get too much ball, we will probably lose. If it turns into a forward battle, I think we will win.

And they rely on Kicking to Richards to a large extent. I don't think there is that much between us. We might have the upper hand in one area and they might have the upper hand in another. As long as we play to our potential then we have as good a chance as the next man so to speak.

Re: Up Against It On Saturday - Come On The S! : Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:45 pm  

Too close to call.
I think we (Wigan) are probably a year ahead of what I expected. Saints big game experience will count for a lot.

Whilst the majority of you are praying for rain, then we are hoping for a dry pitch.

For Wigan to win then we can't allow you any cheap ball inside our own 20 metre area. Saints are the best team in the comp at scoring from that area. There are some great stats in todays RL Express. Saints have scored 96 of their 180 tries from inside 10 metres from the line, for Wigan it's only 80 of their 176.

I don't see it being an open game, more a war of attrition.

Re: Up Against It On Saturday - Come On The S! : Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:48 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Too close to call.
I think we (Wigan) are probably a year ahead of what I expected. Saints big game experience will count for a lot.

Whilst the majority of you are praying for rain, then we are hoping for a dry pitch.

For Wigan to win then we can't allow you any cheap ball inside our own 20 metre area. Saints are the best team in the comp at scoring from that area. There are some great stats in todays RL Express. Saints have scored 96 of their 180 tries from inside 10 metres from the line, for Wigan it's only 80 of their 176.

I don't see it being an open game, more a war of attrition.

I think that may suit us more than you

Re: Up Against It On Saturday - Come On The S! : Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:18 pm  

Imo you lot will be up against it when cunningham goes off it showed on friday v hudd you at times didn't know what to do and he came back on and took the game by the scruff of the neck

I think we all know your wingers are going to be working overtime i like that foster but if he's up against pat with the high ball there will only be one winner, on the other side meli i've noticed he's been caught out of position a few times and if he does on sat you will get punished

If it rains it will be even if not i think we have an edge but it's wigan v saints anything can happen like at murryfield but atm i cant see past a wigan win but 1 things for sure it's going to be a cracker

Re: Up Against It On Saturday - Come On The S! : Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:30 pm  

king warrior wrote:

Imo you lot will be up against it when cunningham goes off it showed on friday v hudd you at times didn't know what to do and he came back on and took the game by the scruff of the neck

Saints are better when Cunningham is on the field without doubt. However I dont think its as big a deal as certain Wiganer are trying to make out. We've done well upto now with Cunningham leaving the field twice a game. Once more I'm sure we can deal with.

king warrior wrote:

I think we all know your wingers are going to be working overtime i like that foster but if he's up against pat with the high ball there will only be one winner, on the other side meli i've noticed he's been caught out of position a few times and if he does on sat you will get punished

Meli will more than likely play in the centre, where he has been impressive this season. All wingers including Goulding will get peppered at Old Trafford. To be honest our short kicking game doesnt concern me as were pretty strong at it anyway. Our experience at Old Trafford tells us that the long kicking game wins the Grand Final. If we kick well through Smith and play for territory, with our pack then its ours to lose IMO.

king warrior wrote:

If it rains it will be even if not i think we have an edge but it's wigan v saints anything can happen like at murryfield but atm i cant see past a wigan win but 1 things for sure it's going to be a cracker

If it rains Saints are big favourites. Saints pack is strong, easily our strongest part of the field and our recent game plan suits wet weather. If its dry then Wigan and their gameplan are obviously better suited. I dont see either side having an edge to be honest. We've played twice this season and on both occasions it could have gone either way.

To be honest though, Old Trafford tends to be won by territorial play. You do the basics well and capitalise on mistakes. As I have said, with our pack, if we can kick well and force Wigan to play from your 20 all night, then I can see Saints grinding Wigan down in all honesty.