Re: TO MERGE OR NOT TO MERGE THAT IS THE QUESTION. : Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:35 am  

[quote="Uppo58"]Hi Captain Caveman, your valid point is certainly not lost on me, and no-one would ever convince me that mergers of clubs that are some 140miles apart is ever going to be a real merger, your absolutely right. If there's an ulterior motive and / or its not agreed by the clubs involved then it shouldn't happen. In our case it did happen and Hull FC were the benefactors. It should never happen again in such a way in my opinion.

However in your case the distance we are talking about is just 4 miles to a mid point ground, not 140miles. OK Normanton Uniteds ground may not be right, but don't get hooked on it as the actual location, it just has to be somewhere that is fairly placed for all 3. I'm just seeing Nomanton FC ground/pitch as land that is already used for football, cricket, and so why not be the Stadium home for the area ??. Don't see it as a patch of land.......have the vision to see it as your stadium.
The KC stadium was built on parkland with its own covenant and also incorporating a Rugby Union and Cricket pitch. The Council found a way to overcome the barriers to make it happen If the place I propose is a no-goer then propose something better in Normanton thats even better placed.
Do not under estimate what such a stadium could do for your area in general, the KC has been brilliant for East Yorkshire as a whole, not just Hull the City.


Your merger was only done to get you into super league by the back door the same as Huddersfield. On the subject of us merging with Wakefield and Featherstone i would never watch rugby again and i have been a Cas supporter for 50 years. I would however agree to a groundshare but the problem is that unlike the rest of you with new grounds we would have to finance it ourselves, we have no football clubs or council funds to pay for it, so can you tell me where the money will come from. If Pearson leaves FC for Leeds United it will be interesting to see what happens to you.

Re: TO MERGE OR NOT TO MERGE THAT IS THE QUESTION. : Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:09 am  

I have never heard such garbage.

I actually play cricket on the land he is suggesting and.... just..... no.

I cannot even begin to start listing the issues with what has just been said

Re: TO MERGE OR NOT TO MERGE THAT IS THE QUESTION. : Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:48 am  

From the outside looking in, I have to say that a merger of Cas, Wakey and Fev would produce a single strong team from an area that has produced some top RL players over the years.

However, I understand the want to hold onto individual identities but in the harsh light of the modern era, when so many clubs walk a knife-edge between safety and oblivion, perhaps it is better to have a merged club than no club at all?

And a merger doesn't have to mean the end of the traditional clubs either. In fact, maintaining those clubs as well as their academy systems at Championship level would be of great benefit to the game.

There is also the financial side of things to consider, a new single purpose built stadium for the new team is cheaper and quicker than trying to push through individual plans. Cheaper to run in the long term too.

Re: TO MERGE OR NOT TO MERGE THAT IS THE QUESTION. : Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:06 am  

roofaldo2 wrote:

From the outside looking in, I have to say that a merger of Cas, Wakey and Fev would produce a single strong team from an area that has produced some top RL players over the years.

However, I understand the want to hold onto individual identities but in the harsh light of the modern era, when so many clubs walk a knife-edge between safety and oblivion, perhaps it is better to have a merged club than no club at all?

And a merger doesn't have to mean the end of the traditional clubs either. In fact, maintaining those clubs as well as their academy systems at Championship level would be of great benefit to the game.

There is also the financial side of things to consider, a new single purpose built stadium for the new team is cheaper and quicker than trying to push through individual plans. Cheaper to run in the long term too.

This coming from a Bradford fan jeez the stink of hypocrisy and conceit is almost unbearable.

Well then lets merge Leeds/Bradford, Hull/Hull KR, Wigan/Leigh and Widnes/Warrington for all the same reasons and of course looking from the outside.

I'm sick to death of pompous wally's like you demanding we do something that no other clubs are willing to do despite it being exactly the same - now do one.

Re: TO MERGE OR NOT TO MERGE THAT IS THE QUESTION. : Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:58 am  

[quote="tigerman49"Your merger was only done to get you into super league by the back door the same as Huddersfield. On the subject of us merging with Wakefield and Featherstone i would never watch rugby again and i have been a Cas supporter for 50 years. I would however agree to a groundshare but the problem is that unlike the rest of you with new grounds we would have to finance it ourselves, we have no football clubs or council funds to pay for it, so can you tell me where the money will come from. If Pearson leaves FC for Leeds United it will be interesting to see what happens to you.]

Hello Tigerman, your right re the merger reasons, and I've already said just that, so we are in agreement on that.

We are also in agreement re. any main funds provider leaving any club. Yes of course this would have an effect on the running of any club. That is quite clear, but not relevant to this debate unless those providing monies to any of your 3 teams are thinking of leaving. I hope not.

Re. your proposal of ground share - It simply doesnt solve your key problems Tigerman.
Which are ;
1)Critical mass fan base
2)Related profitability
3)Player retention
4)Future SL Licensing
5)Continued low resources funding 3 full club structures
6)Inability to compete with rest of SL for top tier players.
7)Ongoing team quality
3 teams and v close neighbours bringing into small geographic area a total of around 75 SL capable quad players.
9)3 teams diluting the cream of all the local youth talent
10) Championship destiny.
11) All above would mean lower confidence in the venture effecting any potential investment from Council/Lottery/Euro econ Devel/Business etc.

this list could go on.....

1 merged team from the region would change every one of the above points.


Its a shame you would not watch Rugby again with merged teams, it would be the games loss and yours. Though I'm sure many others would watch, and once the region had its new 1 Team in new modern stadium its amazing the inertia that can deliver.
Certainly if such change cannot be accepted, then ultimately you would get your choice of not watching Super League again in your own backyard.
"I can't have my clapped out mini so I'll refuse to drive the new VW because its not my exact colour and its a got a different name, I'm just not sure about it. Nah, I'd rather have my bike than go there."

Re: TO MERGE OR NOT TO MERGE THAT IS THE QUESTION. : Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:38 am  

vastman wrote:

This coming from a Bradford fan jeez the stink of hypocrisy and conceit is almost unbearable.

Well then lets merge Leeds/Bradford, Hull/Hull KR, Wigan/Leigh and Widnes/Warrington for all the same reasons and of course looking from the outside.

I'm sick to death of pompous wally's like you demanding we do something that no other clubs are willing to do despite it being exactly the same - now do one.

Hi Vastman, If ever Leeds/Hull/Wigan/Warrington were in the same position as Wakey/Cas/Fev AND also had clone town teams within 3 or 4 miles of them then I think you would have a point. The fact is they are not. And though Bradford have had a lucky escape, with good managemnt they can easily survive and be profitable with what they have going for them. They were a leading force in SL a short time ago and can be there again. So can you too if you are brave and have the vision to maximise all the potential of your area.

A better example of your "argument" may be in Cumbria at some future time. However they are further away from the debate at present not being in or even in the vicinity of SL like you 3 are. But if they did become 1 team in the futture well of course they could well become a force too. With a new stadium catalyst I could well see a Cumbrian team being forced through to SL a la Widnes.
But alone, like youselves they will struggle to sustain a competitive SL team . Of course Barrow is some 45 miles from the other 2 so a 3 way merger is just not that practical up there.
I can see no hypocracy whatsoever coming rom the Bradford fan. Only hard logic from the outside looking in, on what is an emotive issue on the inside. Good judgement and survival should not be clouded by emotion.

Re: TO MERGE OR NOT TO MERGE THAT IS THE QUESTION. : Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:51 am  

DAVE@CAS1990 wrote:

I have never heard such garbage.

I actually play cricket on the land he is suggesting and.... just..... no.

I cannot even begin to start listing the issues with what has just been said

Hi Dave, the thing really is not to see it as it is today, try to imagine what it can be.
It does not have to be at the specific place I mentioned, I wouldn't get too hung up with that. It could be on your cricket pitch of course but it also could be anywhere in this vicinity that has the potential.

Dont look for the barriers, look for the ways to make it happen and importantly how it can rejunenate the area, bring in further investment, and deliver all that is needed to provide 1 of the real hotbed areas of RL in the country back to the forefront of the game where it should be.

Re: TO MERGE OR NOT TO MERGE THAT IS THE QUESTION. : Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:03 am  

Everyone seems to have suggestions on mergers but no answers to the problems

If the 3 clubs of WMDC merge, assuming (which is a massive assumption) we get over the hurdle of the name and location to play, we’ll find equally greater hurdles lie ahead.

How many fans do you think will attend? My guess is no more than 5/6k regular.
Will all debt be merged as well as assets (I’m pretty sure assets will be zero)? Debt still needs to be serviced, unless all 3 clubs go into joint admin, get a pre-pack and start a fresh.
Will we have a rich owner wiling to spunk his money on a team and support a probable loss making club? No sign of knight in shining armour wiling to step forward. That means running to a limited budget, not spending up to the full cap.

The way I see it is that you’ll have a club that’s no stronger than what Cas or Wakey are at the moment. The best the club will bring to the competition would be the youth production line for the big boys.

Re: TO MERGE OR NOT TO MERGE THAT IS THE QUESTION. : Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:51 pm  

Uppo58 wrote:

Hi Dave, the thing really is not to see it as it is today, try to imagine what it can be.
It does not have to be at the specific place I mentioned, I wouldn't get too hung up with that. It could be on your cricket pitch of course but it also could be anywhere in this vicinity that has the potential.

Dont look for the barriers, look for the ways to make it happen and importantly how it can rejunenate the area, bring in further investment, and deliver all that is needed to provide 1 of the real hotbed areas of RL in the country back to the forefront of the game where it should be.

who's paying for this then

Re: TO MERGE OR NOT TO MERGE THAT IS THE QUESTION. : Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:35 pm  

Uppo58 wrote:

Hi Vastman, If ever Leeds/Hull/Wigan/Warrington were in the same position as Wakey/Cas/Fev AND also had clone town teams within 3 or 4 miles of them then I think you would have a point. The fact is they are not. And though Bradford have had a lucky escape, with good managemnt they can easily survive and be profitable with what they have going for them. They were a leading force in SL a short time ago and can be there again. So can you too if you are brave and have the vision to maximise all the potential of your area.

A better example of your "argument" may be in Cumbria at some future time. However they are further away from the debate at present not being in or even in the vicinity of SL like you 3 are. But if they did become 1 team in the futture well of course they could well become a force too. With a new stadium catalyst I could well see a Cumbrian team being forced through to SL a la Widnes.
But alone, like youselves they will struggle to sustain a competitive SL team . Of course Barrow is some 45 miles from the other 2 so a 3 way merger is just not that practical up there.
I can see no hypocracy whatsoever coming rom the Bradford fan. Only hard logic from the outside looking in, on what is an emotive issue on the inside. Good judgement and survival should not be clouded by emotion.

Hi,

Don't wish to be rude but that is b*llocks.