Re: TO MERGE OR NOT TO MERGE THAT IS THE QUESTION. : Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:41 am  

PopTart wrote:

The thing for me is that no one from Wakefield, Cas or Fev has ever said a merger is a good idea.
Neither fans nor clubs want it.....even if it means dropping down a level.

People from outside who want media attention keep raising it and saying we will not progress if we don't.

So can't we just agree that if they are right, one or both of us will die and they don't need to worry about us and if we are right we will succeed on our own.

Fair enough Pop Tart we can leave it that way, and I think you do speak for the majority of posters on here.

Though for all of you it is easier to think in terms your own clubs Super League death wish, when that seems to be so far away.
However, should Newmarket happen, then Trin will become the areas major club overnight and the longer that remains, future generations will move towards watching Super League rather than Champioship Rugby. Or perhaps, as you say, should clubs die out of this dogmatic thinking, you may not even have an option to watch the side you now call your own.
If Super League is to be here for the long term, then its the future generationsupporters, (not you or I) who will quite naturally move over to watch a side 3 miles away playing in the best RL competition in the country. By then, the opportunity you have today to be part of that long term future will be long gone, and but a different kind of wish.

Its been a good debate with you guys, and I sincerely hope your right in hoping on hope that all 3 of you can exist in such close proximity, each with your SL aspirations. But remember there is a stong chance that sticking to this route may not be so appetising if you are one of the long term losers. For the good of RL I hope for you too that you will each have modern stadia, meaning ongoing SL licenses and the support levels sufficient to sustain SL for these great clubs, though I believe this to be unlikely.
Each club has left an indellible mark on the history of top line Rugby Leage and its absolutely right that each one has a legacy of SL, be it separateley or by coming together as one.

Re: TO MERGE OR NOT TO MERGE THAT IS THE QUESTION. : Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:21 am  

One thing to remember on this issue is I follow Castleford Tigers in whatever league and do not get nervous sweats at the possibility they may not be in SL.
Wiping out the possibility of new fans for my club just on the off chance we may not be jettison at the whim of a post-Lindsay RFL pen pusher is not really an option.
The proximity of the 3 clubs is what keeps the rivalry alive, there is respect but also a drive to be the top...

Remember SL does not equal RL

Re: TO MERGE OR NOT TO MERGE THAT IS THE QUESTION. : Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:03 am  

Fully wrote:

Selby then.

But he played for Cas Lock Lane and admitted growing up watching Cas too. And Selby's a Cas area. So he may as well be from Cas.

Thought Selby was York area, 17 miles to Cas, 14 miles to York, and with a York postcode, you can't surely claim Selby as being in Cas?

[PopTart]

Re: TO MERGE OR NOT TO MERGE THAT IS THE QUESTION. : Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:30 am  

Uppo58 wrote:

Fair enough Pop Tart we can leave it that way, and I think you do speak for the majority of posters on here.

(snip for space)
Each club has left an indellible mark on the history of top line Rugby Leage and its absolutely right that each one has a legacy of SL, be it separateley or by coming together as one.

You are unique in the fact that you talk quite well about this without just resorting to the shallow arguement some do in that we are close together and are not top of the league so must merge.
I do agree with Walton though that I support Wakefield, no matter where they play (in league and stadium). I'd be diappointed if they cease to exist clearly, but I'd still watch them in the lower division.
I do see the point of having a strong Super league and I would love to see a league where everyone is getting 10k+ crowds and big sponsorhip deals on the table.
The problem for me is that only a few are there and we shouldn't be singled out as the merger option any more than the other clubs.
Ok, I'll exempt Leeds, Wigan and Sts as they don't need to merge financially.

Bradford I would have done but clearly they are no better than us at the moment. But they are a good example to use.
Would they have been stronger if they'd merged with Halifax or Keighley? I don't think so. They would have just killed the smaller one and carried on exactly as they were before. They would have a wider catchment area, but the stallwarts who go see a team at a lower league level are not the types to just switch teams to watch Super league. If they were they would already have been watching Bradford.

So for me, mergers don't work like the theory. They are simply takeovers. And as with all takeovers, the assets would be sold and any advantage taken, but pretty soon it is just back to where it was.

In business terms, taking over the shop next door does not expand your business. It just gives you better premises and possibly gives you a monopoly on the immediate area. If you bought some shops in the neighbouring county then you expand your business as you get new customers but that isn't a Rugby league merger.

[Bullseye]

Re: TO MERGE OR NOT TO MERGE THAT IS THE QUESTION. : Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:54 am  

I think there's a flawed assumption that fans of individual teams would all simply club together and support a merged club. (This assumption seems to be held by those not affected by any proposed merger).

Sport's a more emotive subject than other business and fans have emotional attachment to their team and area. So much so that in most cases there are incredible rivalries between them and the supporters of the team they're being asked to merge with. It's those emotions that sport is built on. Take that away and nobody is interested anymore.

If a merger was forced or some sort of ultimatum then I think many fans would either campaign to start their own clubs further down the hierachy (like Sheffield and Gateshead) or be lost to the game as a whole. I simply don't see how an artificial, manufactured hybrid team would generate the support it would need to be a sustainable business.

From a Bradford perspective there is an incredible rivalry between us and Halifax and Keighley. These are distinctive places with their own identities. With Cas, Fev and Wakey it's a similar situation. Just because they are close geographically doesn't mean a thing.

I think there's also too much attention given to the issue of modern stadia too. Just because a side plays in modern facilities doesn't mean they're a well run club that has a firm financial footing. It should be easier for them to operate but it doesn't guarantee anything.

If a majority of fans want a merger then so be it. However I can't see that happening unless there was a heck of a compromise and nobody felt like they were being "taken over" or wiped out of existence.

Good luck, I hope Wakey, Cas and Fev go on separately unless you all decide you want otherwise.

Re: TO MERGE OR NOT TO MERGE THAT IS THE QUESTION. : Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:07 pm  

I presume the assumption must be that having a big successful club in the area will attract the floating voter, or those intrigued by the new big name team & forthcoming generations of kids who just want to attach themselves to a successful team, irrespective of area loyalties. The only comparison I can think of is forming MK Dons in an area that previously did not have a top flight football club. They had to attract a new fan base, at the moment they seem to get c8k crowds, whether that is sustainable or successful I have no idea. But if a Calder team was formed they would need to get >10k to be seen as a success. If they were top 4 they might achieve it, but you couldn't form a top 4 team out of the current 3 teams. All of this would come at the potential loss of several thousand speccies to the game. Personally I will watch RL anywhere, anytime, but that's probably because I am not from the heart of that region.

Re: TO MERGE OR NOT TO MERGE THAT IS THE QUESTION. : Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:14 pm  

JINJER wrote:

Thought Selby was York area, 17 miles to Cas, 14 miles to York, and with a York postcode, you can't surely claim Selby as being in Cas?

More like a colony of Cas/Ponte due to huge number of people from this area (including Gaz Ellis' family I believe) relocating to work in Selby coalfield.

Re: TO MERGE OR NOT TO MERGE THAT IS THE QUESTION. : Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:47 pm  

JINJER wrote:

Thought Selby was York area, 17 miles to Cas, 14 miles to York, and with a York postcode, you can't surely claim Selby as being in Cas?

credit to Jinjer who has spent this morning walking to and from these places to produce this data

Re: TO MERGE OR NOT TO MERGE THAT IS THE QUESTION. : Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:59 pm  

DAVE@CAS1990 wrote:

credit to Jinjer who has spent this morning walking to and from these places to produce this data

Anything to prove a point Dave.

Re: TO MERGE OR NOT TO MERGE THAT IS THE QUESTION. : Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:09 pm  

Fully wrote:

Selby then.

But he played for Cas Lock Lane and admitted growing up watching Cas too. And Selby's a Cas area. So he may as well be from Cas.

he played for Whitemoor warriors juniors now Selby Warriors. to say Selby is a cas area is very wrong and very annoying from my position. there is just as many if not more Rovers and Rhinos fans, i have seen many buses from Selby going to watch Rovers games but never 1 to see cas. cas have done nothing to help junior rugby in selby i myself started the warriors juniors up and rang rovers for some help, they bought us a new kit several match balls to get us going,and sent a coach round to pick all the kids up and took them to a game i rang cas and the answer i got was "must be joking we could do with some sponsorship". Rovers Are doing coaching in Brayton, Carlton and Selby high at the min and only last week Rovers hooker andy Ellis was at Brayton high doing a talk in assembley. Rovers let the Warriors use there ground all the time free of charge and the selby and district cup finals day is to be played at post Office Road on the 4th May again free of charge. cas sent Ryan mcgoldrick to do a session the other year and then sent the lottery manager to try and get the club signed up to there lottery, (no chance)If Selby is a cas area there not doing a lot to protect it are they