We all know - deep down that Tigers only chance of playing at Newmarket will be in an away game once a year. We will never share a stadium out of Castleford with WTW. The BOD know that and so do the fans, the RFL and so do Wakey. It would be the end of Castleford Tigers within a season. The same would apply to WTW playing at GH.
RW is doing his job - he is defending his club, our club and, although its a shame that it has come to this he has had to remind people of the details of the feasability study arrangements last year (that didn't happen) and Wakey's point blank refusal.
WTW choice of location (Newmarket) was deliberatly pointed towards Castleford in the only hope of a groundshare arrangement to fund the running costs. Why didn't they choose any of the other locations? They need CT to make it feasable or it won't happen. Their latest ploy is to state that the proposed stadium is fully funded - it isn't by any means.
I would be astonished if NM is passed in the PI. There are several major hurdles they face yet. Firstly convincing the PI that the district needs more warehouse space and secondly the greenbelt issue. Then the wastage going through Methley village. There is also some other major hoops for them to jump through - the generals on the Wakey forum know too well about all of these and are sending out a very confident message to the rank and file but I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't one or two other issues that will make RW's letter pale into insignificance.
If NM does get passed CT will carry on with plans for GH and let Opus continue with negotiations - its not the end of the world for us and I'm not one of these fans that think the district can only have 1 new stadium.
As a Wakefield fan, I agree with the sentiments, both clubs have been intransigent in their views on this matter. For what it's worth i think a Joint stadium, that is, a stadium Jointly owned and operated by a joint holding company. split revenue streams etc, be it in GH or NM i really don't care, is the only way to go. What is important is that both teams keep their separate identities. It is Lunacy and financial suicide to build two new stadia within 3 miles of each other.
Maybe one day common sense will prevail, but this is RL and i fear it will not and both clubs could wither and die.
It would be the end of Castleford Tigers within a season. The same would apply to WTW playing at GH.
I wouldn't get beyond the pre-season friendlies.
To some extent, it is patronising drivel of the other clubs who think we are both small clubs who should be grateful for our place. No one expects Saints and Wigan to share a stadium, and no one is shouting at the Bulls to get out of their dump and move into Headingly, etc. It is always our clubs, and the reasons for not doing so are as obvious as the examples quoted.
I hope NM gets built and I hope Tesco give you whatever you need for Wheldon Road and you get GH. End of.
I reckon Newmarket will get built. Whether in its current guise is a different matter.
I think many of the arguments are flawed from the objectors, however, I do think that some Wakefield fans need to rein in this superiority complex a bit and realise that everyone has a point of view, a right to speak and that not everyone is or will be for this.
The one thing that people lose sight of is that no one is against WTW having a stadium, it's the wider development on Greenbelt land that's the concern and the fact that the stadium is given prominence over that.
Post-Christmas will be interesting for both clubs but the key thing is progression within the next three years and to not get stagnant. Ultimately, the key aim for both clubs is a new stadium and better income streams. We certainly cannot afford to stay at WR for a further significant period of time.
Last edited by Fully on Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
We all know - deep down that Tigers only chance of playing at Newmarket will be in an away game once a year. We will never share a stadium out of Castleford with WTW. The BOD know that and so do the fans, the RFL and so do Wakey. It would be the end of Castleford Tigers within a season. The same would apply to WTW playing at GH.
RW is doing his job - he is defending his club, our club and, although its a shame that it has come to this he has had to remind people of the details of the feasability study arrangements last year (that didn't happen) and Wakey's point blank refusal.
WTW choice of location (Newmarket) was deliberatly pointed towards Castleford in the only hope of a groundshare arrangement to fund the running costs. Why didn't they choose any of the other locations? They need CT to make it feasable or it won't happen. Their latest ploy is to state that the proposed stadium is fully funded - it isn't by any means. It was WMDC who identified the site as far as I am aware.
I would be astonished if NM is passed in the PI. There are several major hurdles they face yet. Firstly convincing the PI that the district needs more warehouse space and secondly the greenbelt issue. Then the wastage going through Methley village. There is also some other major hoops for them to jump through - the generals on the Wakey forum know too well about all of these and are sending out a very confident message to the rank and file but I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't one or two other issues that will make RW's letter pale into insignificance. The LDF defines the space needed the developer is satisfying that need
If NM does get passed CT will carry on with plans for GH and let Opus continue with negotiations - its not the end of the world for us and I'm not one of these fans that think the district can only have 1 new stadium. Agree most reasonable fans from both teams want both team to succeed , if only so we can still contest teh Adam Watene Trophy
Change is inevitable ...except from a vending machine!
BillyRhino wrote:
So in best IA mode ..<.Possibley World Class, could be the greatest thing since sliced bread....am personally very excited, and confidently expect him to prove my predictions are bang on target.... Alternatively he could be rubbish>
We all know - deep down that Tigers only chance of playing at Newmarket will be in an away game once a year. We will never share a stadium out of Castleford with WTW. The BOD know that and so do the fans, the RFL and so do Wakey. It would be the end of Castleford Tigers within a season. The same would apply to WTW playing at GH.
I think the majority of both sets of fans would agree with you and that is why two stadiums are important both to the clubs and to the district as a whole.
Tigerade wrote:
RW is doing his job - he is defending his club, our club and, although its a shame that it has come to this he has had to remind people of the details of the feasability study arrangements last year (that didn't happen) and Wakey's point blank refusal.
I think the issue remains not what he has written, there is nothing in there he has not written or said in the media already (albeit with a Cas bias, same as any other club would do though). But the fact that it was Barton Willmore who asked him to write this letter and he wrote that letter knowing full well that Barton Willmore are being paid and acting on behalf of an objector and that they intended to use that letter as part of their clients objection case at the Public Inquiry. Again, if you can't see that he should have take the advice you seem to be advocate in this post, to concentrate on his own plans, then I think you are misguided.
Tigerade wrote:
WTW choice of location (Newmarket) was deliberatly pointed towards Castleford in the only hope of a groundshare arrangement to fund the running costs. Why didn't they choose any of the other locations? They need CT to make it feasable or it won't happen. Their latest ploy is to state that the proposed stadium is fully funded - it isn't by any means.
You are wrong here, the location has nothing to do with being 'nearer' Castleford, the site was chosen because it was a preferred site option by WMDC to full the legal requirement to supply 51ha of the 95ha of B8 development land required on the M62 corridor. WMDC approached the site promoter, Yorkcourt, about a section 106 agreement to partially fund the building of a community stadium, as also required in the LDF core strategy. They agreed on the basis of more planning gain and the rest is history. Equally, something you may have missed, because not much of fanfare has been made of it, Yorkcourt have agreed to fund the entire stadium and community sports facilities build, and will enter an agreement with the community trust to effectivley loan the remaining monies, I suspect interest free, on the proviso of grant funding paying back the loan, which can only be accessed once the stadium has planning. Ir is s bit of a chicken and egg thing! Andrew Piatt announced that the section 106 agreement, between the developer and WMDC, is likley to be signed during the PI and presented to the inspector. So, just be careful, the legal documents look likely to prove you wrong.
Tigerade wrote:
I would be astonished if NM is passed in the PI. There are several major hurdles they face yet. Firstly convincing the PI that the district needs more warehouse space and secondly the greenbelt issue. Then the wastage going through Methley village. There is also some other major hoops for them to jump through - the generals on the Wakey forum know too well about all of these and are sending out a very confident message to the rank and file but I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't one or two other issues that will make RW's letter pale into insignificance.
Hmmm, again, you need to be careful. The requirement for the additional 95ha is a legal requirement of the LDF, which is in force, so no one needs or is even trying to convince the inspector otherwise, from either side, because that would stupid. The agreement that Wakefield needs the additional 95ha is not in question, sorry, you are just two years too late with that argument! There are people, Barton Willmore (acting again for Newmarket objectors), Methley Residents Assoc and Oulton Society who are trying to convince the inspector holding the site specific LDF hearings, that other sites should have been chosen over Newmarket and also "what does M62 corridor mean! All the alternative sites are green-belt BTW... just so you know.
The issue of green belt is the key one and that is what the majority of 'discussion' centres around at the PI
The whole Methley vthing and traffic is rubbish, always has been, but they will still argue otherwise.
There are a few other hoops to jump through, but people have them covered!
Tigerade wrote:
If NM does get passed CT will carry on with plans for GH and let Opus continue with negotiations - its not the end of the world for us and I'm not one of these fans that think the district can only have 1 new stadium.
Time for us to concentrate on our own plans.
We agree on this one and I for one hope you do get the stadium you need and deserve. The district can support three, never mind two stadiums.
However, I think for Opus read Yorkcourt and vice versa! It might not be green-belt, but much is very similar!
Change is inevitable ...except from a vending machine!
BillyRhino wrote:
So in best IA mode ..<.Possibley World Class, could be the greatest thing since sliced bread....am personally very excited, and confidently expect him to prove my predictions are bang on target.... Alternatively he could be rubbish>
I reckon Newmarket will get built. Whether in its current guise is a different matter.
I think many of the arguments are flawed from the objectors, however, I do think that some Wakefield fans need to rein in this superiority complex a bit and realise that everyone has a point of view, a right to speak and that not everyone is or will be for this.
The one thing that people lose sight of is that no one is against WTW having a stadium, it's the wider development on Greenbelt land that's the concern and the fact that the stadium is given prominence over that.
Post-Christmas will be interesting for both clubs but the key thing is progression within the next three years and to not get stagnant. Ultimately, the key aim for both clubs is a new stadium and better income streams. We certainly cannot afford to stay at WR for a further significant period of time.
Do you know Fully, just as begin to lose all hope with you, you pull a post out of the hat makes me realise that a very reasonable person is under that Cas passion of yours!
Just a couple of points though! Barton Willmore (acting blah, blah), Methley Residents Assoc & Oulton Socity are now against a stadium at Newmarket! As I predicted, as the PI drew nearer they made a subtle change to their objections... sorry, they don't want anything, including a stadium now! They want the other rejected green belt sites used for the B8 instead and Wakefield to share with Cas at GH... meaning they don't want anything building on the Newmarket site... after all, it is near them, the other sites are near other people and GH is near no one who matters!
LCC, god bless em, said that they are not objecting to the building of a stadium at Newmarket! However, for some strange reason it is their Barrister who keeps banging on about Wakey moving and sharing at GH... he has been clutching at many straws this week so far... and that is one of them!
Question that I'm assuming IA might be able to shed some light on...why is there a legal requirement to build so much warehousing on this 95ha of land when there's plenty of empty warehouses/units at J32? (as well as many other locations in the district).
Change is inevitable ...except from a vending machine!
BillyRhino wrote:
So in best IA mode ..<.Possibley World Class, could be the greatest thing since sliced bread....am personally very excited, and confidently expect him to prove my predictions are bang on target.... Alternatively he could be rubbish>
Question that I'm assuming IA might be able to shed some light on...why is there a legal requirement to build so much warehousing on this 95ha of land when there's plenty of empty warehouses/units at J32? (as well as many other locations in the district).
Firstly, there isn't as much as you think, yes, there is some but as a percentage of the overall I reckon it would struggle to be more than 5% of the total. Also, some of the empty units are a victim of the boom when building spec units (sorry, that means building them to specification without an end user client signed up) were built and often were taken on short leases or left empty. However, as these units are not built with a specific end user in mind companies that need these type of units either move on or, in some cases went out of business in the recession. Unless the developer wants to knock them down and offer the site again for a new build they don't get taken... and it is cheaper for the developer to leave them empty!!! There is not much empty space on the M1 corridor either, J41 is full and someone even took Slazengers unit and refurbed it... J41 is a great location though, as J31 is and as J30 Newmarket is, and that is attractive to long term end-users!
The inspector determined in 2009 that Wakefield would need this extra space to for both economic growth, regeneration and job creation. Remember, this is to take the Wakefield district to 2022 and Yorkcourt would not expect full occupancy for at best 5 years and more likley 7 to 10 years, as the plan.
As such, it is now a legal requirement for Wakefield to allocate 95ha (at least, they are now saying 108ha but even I think that is too much) for B8 development on the M62 Corridor. Ok, some people are arguing tha the M62 corridor should maybe also mean the A1 corridor, but that is real greenfield land out that way.
Also, this is not done in isolation, the Aire Valley is also required to contribute to the Leeds City Regional targets for B8, but the problem with the Aire Valley is that, well... it is a crap location compared to the M62 between Wakefield/Castleford & Leeds and the M1 south of J42. Hence the reason they have made it and EZ (Employment Zone), meaning the government give companies tax breaks and incentives to move there... the problem is, is that this sort of offer attracts short term boundary hopping companies who bugger off somewhere else when the incentives dry up!
The reason Yorkcourt and WMDC want Newmarket is that long term end-users want Newmarket... it is a very good location and they want an Asda, like at J31 or a Coca-Cola, like at J41 who will stay for decades at that location.
Can we totally eradicate NM from our thinking. What if our next SL bid goes in without any brick being laid at GH while NM is ready for 2015. Our only chance of a license would be to move elsewhere so we would have to decide whether to play in the Championship at WR (effectively excluding ourselves from SL ad infinitum) or groundshare in a qualifying stadium in the hope GH get's built sooner rather than later. If the latter would a trip to the other side of Methley enable us to retain/sustain more support than say a slog down the A1 to Doncaster?
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