Bladerunner Verdict : Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:03 am  

Pistorius was a cr@p witness according to Judge Thokozile Masipa currently summing up.

Re: Bladerunner Verdict : Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:15 am  

Crap but not guilty of murder

Re: Bladerunner Verdict : Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:18 am  

I thought this was going to be the difinitive answer to "was Deckard a replicant"?

: Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:22 am  

Chris28 wrote:

Crap but not guilty of murder

Not gulity of premeditated murder, but still could be found guilty of common murder or culpable homicide according to the BBC site

although the main text seems to be 20 mins behind the feed on the side, tumhat has him cleared of murder. Ho Hum

Re: Bladerunner Verdict : Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:01 pm  

It's all about the lolly guys & dolls.

Re: Bladerunner Verdict : Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:13 pm  

I clicked on the BBC feed briefly and it happened to have this quote from the judge:

He cannot have foreseen killing whoever was behind the toilet door

That ends any interest I had in the case (which wasn't that much) right there. I'm thinking if I think a human is the other side of a door, and I pump a hail of bullets at point blank range through the door - because I apparently fear for my own life - then yes, i think I could forsee that one likely outcome is they will die. Like, er, if my bullets hit them?

I also know it's not unique to South Africa, but find it unsavoury and cruel, whatever you may think of the defendant, to have this X-factor style pregnant pause verdict. He should have been told what he was found innocent or guilty of, and then given the reasoning. There's no need to make him sit there and sweat trying to second-guess what's coming for a couple of hours.

EDIT: some time later, back at the court:

"The accused knew there was a person behind the toilet door, he chose to use a firearm. Would a reasonable person in the same circumstances as the accused have foreseen the possibility that if he fired four shots whoever was behind the toilet might be struck and die as a result?

She said the answer was yes.

"I am of the view that the accused acted too hastily and used excessive force. In the circumstances, it is clear that his conduct was negligent," she said, before abruptly adjourning for the day.

So, on the one hand:
"He cannot have foreseen killing whoever was behind the toilet door"
... but on the other hand a reasonable person would...
"have foreseen the possibility that if he fired four shots whoever was behind the toilet might be struck and die".

So he cannot have foreseen killing them, but should have foreseen they might die. Okaaaaay.

And then why not adjourn in the early afternoon, so the defendant has another night to stew. Weird.

Re: Bladerunner Verdict : Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:56 pm  

What I am struggling with is why would the first thing an intruder would do is go for a dump? This is bonkers!!

Re: Bladerunner Verdict : Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:29 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

What I am struggling with is why would the first thing an intruder would do is go for a dump? This is bonkers!!

An intruder breaking into a house at night might go into a bathroom in the search for another room.

For me what makes him guilty is the fact he was supposedly awoken from sleep and assumes intruders yet doesn't check on the whereabouts of the woman he supposedly loves.

Plus the fact his testimony was the most pathetic and wimpy that's ever been given. He deserves serious jail time just for the testimony alone.

Re: Bladerunner Verdict : Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:32 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

I clicked on the BBC feed briefly and it happened to have this quote from the judge:
That ends any interest I had in the case (which wasn't that much) right there. I'm thinking if I think a human is the other side of a door, and I pump a hail of bullets at point blank range through the door - because I apparently fear for my own life - then yes, i think I could forsee that one likely outcome is they will die. Like, er, if my bullets hit them?

I also know it's not unique to South Africa, but find it unsavoury and cruel, whatever you may think of the defendant, to have this X-factor style pregnant pause verdict. He should have been told what he was found innocent or guilty of, and then given the reasoning. There's no need to make him sit there and sweat trying to second-guess what's coming for a couple of hours.

EDIT: some time later, back at the court:

So, on the one hand:
"He cannot have foreseen killing whoever was behind the toilet door"
... but on the other hand a reasonable person would...
"have foreseen the possibility that if he fired four shots whoever was behind the toilet might be struck and die".

So he cannot have foreseen killing them, but should have foreseen they might die. Okaaaaay.

And then why not adjourn in the early afternoon, so the defendant has another night to stew. Weird.

Agree with all that. I'm nowhere even close to knowing much about how the justice system works in any country including in Britain, my only experiences of it being very fleeting.

But a few things seemed strange to me. First of all the lack of a jury. I know we have magistrates in this country deciding often very important (for the people involved) cases but for a murder/manslaughter case we'd rightly have a jury. I think it's infinitely preferable to 1 person making a decision.

Then as you say the strange decision the judge has come to. From what I heard she basically said he knew there was someone there, that he was aiming to shoot them (ie not a warning) and it wasn't reasonable to think he himself was in danger and that he had numerous other options available to him ie calling for help. How she can state that and dismiss murder I don't know, but as I say I'm nowhere close to knowledgable on legal aspects.

I agree entirely with you on he shouldn't be kept waiting. It's unfair and unnecessary.
I don't understand why it took all day for such short statements to be read out by the judge or why they had to finish the day so early. Also the judge, at times, didn't appear very au fait with what she was reading.

I have many reservations about our criminal justice system, but it seems light years ahead of that in SA.

Re: Bladerunner Verdict : Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:05 am  

As FA says, her logic is flawed ....
It should be pointed out to her at her trial for incompetence.
Just joking me lady ... loved you and Parker in that puppet thingy on TV.