Anyone see this? : Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:20 pm  

Sounds good, albeit risk: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ewers.html I didn't see the programme, did anyone else? Did anyone manage to see the two names? (If you did don't mention them!). Why did Cameron say that trying to out the paedophiles was a witch-hunt especially against people who are gay? Is that because he thinks paedophilia and homesexuality are the same, or does he know / have strong suspicions that the alleged perpetrators are 'also' gay, or what? Was it his way of deflecting the issue by pulling the bigotted homophobe card on Schofield? Seems to raise alot of questions does this 'ere ambush.

Sounds good, albeit risk: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ewers.html I didn't see the programme, did anyone else? Did anyone manage to see the two names? (If you did don't mention them!). Why did Cameron say that trying to out the paedophiles was a witch-hunt especially against people who are gay? Is that because he thinks paedophilia and homesexuality are the same, or does he know / have strong suspicions that the alleged perpetrators are 'also' gay, or what? Was it his way of deflecting the issue by pulling the bigotted homophobe card on Schofield? Seems to raise alot of questions does this 'ere ambush.

Re: Anyone see this? : Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:31 pm  

The whole paedo thing is like the salem witch trials.

No doubt some of it is true. But allegations are fuelling allegations. I suspect many of them are complete bull being pedalled by:

(1) Attention seekers.
(2) People after a quick buck.
(3) Lawyers.

Actually, looking at the above, (1) + (2) = (3). How ironic.

Re: Anyone see this? : Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:07 pm  

First up – the discussion is fine, but as mentioned elsewhere, let's not go down the route of naming names or hinting at the same.

Now, to the subject: in my opinion, I think David Cameron was caught off guard, so the comment should be taken in that light.

Since questions over abuse in North Wales are linked to the allegations surrounding Jimmy Savile – if only in that they have re-emerged because of that case – then the sexuality issue is nonsense: Savile is alleged to have abused (almost exclusively) females.

It's worth noting that rape is not the same as sex. For instance, rape in prisons or as a weapon of war is about power and the exercise of power, and it would be wrong to see it as 'homosexual' or 'heterosexual'. These things are not about sex – or, therefore, sexuality.

It could be seen as a little surprising that Cameron didn't order an inquiry into the BBC after the Savile allegations were broadcast. It would have been enormously popular with some on the right.

But now, in terms of the allegations around North Wales and senior politicians, he has ordered an inquiry into the Waterhouse Inquiry, which reported in 2000.

Now just for clarity, nothing that I have heard or read suggests that Cameron is remotely involved himself, but I suspect that he's been told some of what could be revealed and is desperately trying to bail a ship with a leaky bucket.

This is a can of worms, but it isn't going to go away. It's also not unconnected to some of the issues raised by Leveson – not least in terms of police corruption.

If senior politicians (of any party) were engaged in such abuse, then the security forces and police cannot but have known. Similarly, in the Savile case, his autobiography quite clearly says that, if the police had gone for him, he'd have 'taken them with him', because they were 'doing the same thing'.

Given what we learned a few weeks ago about Hillsborough, I think we're witnessing a wider opening up of the question of corruption in this country.

And I have no idea where it will go.

Video Ref may well be correct in terms of opportunistic claims of abuse, but it is also classic behaviour that the abuser – who holds the power (see above) – is often not 'challengeable' (if you will) until their death breaks a sort of chain, a hold, on the victim.

In the North Wales situation, the victims who came forward and testified to the inquiry, have never had any form of justice. For whatever reason, no prosecutions followed and there was a bar on anyone named at the inquiry being named in public.

So, much as I loathe conspiracy theories, I can understand that such a situation will inevitably provoke exactly that, whether that was ever a deliberate intention or not.

Re: Anyone see this? : Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:20 pm  

Talking of can of worms and Savile, the DM today had an article linking him the Yorkshire Ripper case. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rders.html EDIT: They seem to have edited that article from earlier today - unless there is another on their site. The first article was much stronger.

Talking of can of worms and Savile, the DM today had an article linking him the Yorkshire Ripper case. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rders.html EDIT: They seem to have edited that article from earlier today - unless there is another on their site. The first article was much stronger.

Re: Anyone see this? : Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:34 pm  

Can anyone imagine what Savile's family must feel like?

There are so many victims here.

Re: Anyone see this? : Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:41 pm  

In fact this was the aricle I was looking for: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ctims.html There some pretty amazing things that come out of that (if true). Not least, what it implies the police may have known /suspected Savile of / capable of?

In fact this was the aricle I was looking for: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ctims.html There some pretty amazing things that come out of that (if true). Not least, what it implies the police may have known /suspected Savile of / capable of?

Re: Anyone see this? : Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:50 pm  

Well the comments in Savile's own autobiography say quite clearly that the police knew that he was an abuser.

And the mainstream media knew. That's equally clear.

And to an extent at least, that's why this case is so important.

Re: Anyone see this? : Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:01 pm  

Nothing has changed in my opinion. I know personally from two separate cases where child safeguarding concerns were reported to a local authority about the same institution at around the same time and the police that neither took any action. The authority in question was mentioned on TV recently as one that had swept these issues under the carpet in the past. So far as I can tell they still do to this day. The first reaction of local government, schools, etc seems to be to close their ears and eyes to any wrong-doing and simply ignore it or persucute the whilstle-blower. To give an example at a more mundane level, schools with the local authority imposition of tick-box culture produce and publish fancy anti-bullying policies. If any parent ever suggests bullying may have occured,the headteachers invariably say something like "we don't have any bullying at this school." What nonsense, every school everywhere has some degree of bullying in that well-known place the "real world."

Re: Anyone see this? : Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:21 pm  

Has anyone sent for the Paedofinder General yet?

I would post the link to a well known file-sharing site But last time I did it got edited out.

Re: Anyone see this? : Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:47 pm  

This goes an awful lot further than North Wales. From Dunblane to Haute de la Gaume to Mountbatten.

A few obvious questions arise;
1/ Why has'nt Max clifford been questioned when he has openly stated that x number of celebs have contacted him asking for advice?
2/ How high up does all of this go? Now knowing that Saville had links to prime ministers and the royal family?
3/ Why was operation Ore disbanded?
4/ How much info has Murdoch got on politicians,celebs, royalty? And for that matter, Robert Maxwell?

I've no doubt the outcome will be a cover-up, unless d notices and injunctions are lifted.