Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot? : Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:58 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

But here goes - June 2011 Reuters/Ipsos Mori political monitor poll for the Daily Telegraph suggest Mrs Thatcher was the most capable of recent prime ministers but Blair the most likeable?

I'd agree with that, but then it isn't as subjective as "best" and I'd guess the questions were a little more refined and the sample size a little more representative than that some of those linked to.

You probably find Blair was towards the top of some of those polls linked to, popularity within a certain sample of the population isn't an indicator or how the wider population feels.

Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot? : Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:04 pm  

I have a bottle of champagne ready for when she pops her clogs which I will drink to the tune of "Ding dong the witch is dead" from "Wizard of Oz". I will the be a true champagne socialist

Ajw 71, I suggest you listen to "Tramp the dirt down" by Elvis Costello to see why we hate her. She destroyed the entire economies of some towns, started the move away from free university education and sold off all the family silver in her mad cap privatisation program that have lumbered us with profiteering utilities companies and some of the worst and most expensive public transport in western Europe.

Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot? : Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:03 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Given that most polls are commissioned by one or other interest group it could be difficult to satisfy your criteria - but then that is what you want!!

Is it? Your psychic powers must be amazing to know what I want. All I asked is for ajw to produce some evidence from an independent source with a decent sample and fair weighting. Otherwise polls are unrepresentative.

For instance The Guardian did a poll asking if readers "do you admire Margaret Thatcher as PM?"
Funnily enough the poll came out:
Yes - 12%
No - 88%

To take ajw's stance, that proves that the nation hated her and thought she was rubbish. There, incontrovertible evidence.

Sal Paradise wrote:

But here goes - June 2011 Reuters/Ipsos Mori political monitor poll for the Daily Telegraph suggest Mrs Thatcher was the most capable of recent prime ministers but Blair the most likeable?

Yep, I'd seen that. The weighting seems ok but there is a larger proportion of people living in the south that were polled compared to relative populations and for some reason Wales & NI is unrepresented entirely.
Though I'd agree it's a far far better poll than the dross that was brought up by ajw as "evidence". Though again we get into the issue of the question. You can think someone is capable whilst disagreeing with what they do.

Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot? : Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:52 am  

Him wrote:

Is it? Your psychic powers must be amazing to know what I want. All I asked is for ajw to produce some evidence from an independent source with a decent sample and fair weighting. Otherwise polls are unrepresentative.

For instance The Guardian did a poll asking if readers "do you admire Margaret Thatcher as PM?"
Funnily enough the poll came out:
Yes - 12%
No - 88%

To take ajw's stance, that proves that the nation hated her and thought she was rubbish. There, incontrovertible evidence.

Yep, I'd seen that. The weighting seems ok but there is a larger proportion of people living in the south that were polled compared to relative populations and for some reason Wales & NI is unrepresented entirely.
Though I'd agree it's a far far better poll than the dross that was brought up by ajw as "evidence". Though again we get into the issue of the question. You can think someone is capable whilst disagreeing with what they do.

You have found a way to question every poll that ajw has put forward, you are also questioning the poll I put forward because it doesn't give you the answer that you want.

You don't have to be a psychic to see where you are coming from - Stevie Wonder can see that.

Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot? : Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:03 am  

dr_feelgood wrote:

I have a bottle of champagne ready for when she pops her clogs which I will drink to the tune of "Ding dong the witch is dead" from "Wizard of Oz". I will the be a true champagne socialist

Ajw 71, I suggest you listen to "Tramp the dirt down" by Elvis Costello to see why we hate her. She destroyed the entire economies of some towns, started the move away from free university education and sold off all the family silver in her mad cap privatisation program that have lumbered us with profiteering utilities companies and some of the worst and most expensive public transport in western Europe.

Just think how bad things would have been if Callaghan and Healey had stayed in power - IMF would have been deciding how we spent our money and Arthur would have continued to bring the country to a standstill along with his other pseudo lefty mates at the TUC.

Thatcher simply redressed the balance of power between the elected body and a bunch of union guys who thought they ran the country. In something as fundamental as that you will have casualties Arthur had it coming the fact he was strategical out thought says much about Thatcher and Arthur.

As for selling off public assets - anyone who thinks public transport - especially the trains offer a worse service now than it did then didn't use it then and doesn't use it now. BT is much more efficient organisation now than it ever was under public ownership etc.

Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot? : Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:53 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

You have found a way to question every poll that ajw has put forward, you are also questioning the poll I put forward because it doesn't give you the answer that you want.

You don't have to be a psychic to see where you are coming from - Stevie Wonder can see that.

Exactly. You can guarantee too that if Thatcher was at the bottom of these polls, the anti's would be lapping it up.

Just because they don't like her they want to believe everyone in the country doesn't too.

Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot? : Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:55 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Thatcher simply redressed the balance of power between the elected body and a bunch of union guys who thought they ran the country. In something as fundamental as that you will have casualties

True, similar to the institutuion of slavery in 1860's USA. Wasn't going to go down without a fight, just like the unions.

Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot? : Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:19 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

You have found a way to question every poll that ajw has put forward, you are also questioning the poll I put forward because it doesn't give you the answer that you want.

You don't have to be a psychic to see where you are coming from - Stevie Wonder can see that.

Oh come off it. 7 of those 8 polls he put are utterly ridiculous, anyone with half a brain can see that. As I said, the only one that has semi legitimacy is the Newsnight poll, but then Newsnight attracts certain types of viewers from certain types of backgrounds.
Which part of that do you disagree with?

The poll you linked to is, as I said, far better. But isn't actually asking the question ajw talked about. Can you see that? Or are you back in your real world again?

Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot? : Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:49 am  

As I mentioned earlier, the only poll that matters is the poll that her peers, fellow party members, and her cabinet took in November 1990, that was the point at which they chose to sack her from the job because they no longer agreed with her ideology, could see that she was obviously and intensely despised by the electorate, and feared for their own jobs at the next electorate choice.

Now when an extreme right wing politician is sacked by her own party members there can only be two reasons - one is that he/she is embracing a political stance that is too left wing for their tastes, or they are veering too far to the right and into dictatorship realms - like her very best ally Pinochet.

I think we all know why the Tory members of 1990 sacked her and I think we all know what the reality of any "popularity" claims were just by looking back at that time.

Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot? : Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:04 am  

Deregulation of banking; opening up of and encouraging cheap credit; destruction of industry and move to 'service' economy; bar on social housing to boost the housing market ...

Recognise these?

They're the foundations of the current crisis.

All the Maggieites either don't know, have forgotten or applaud these things.

And that is without mentioning the rise of MRSA (a direct consequence of privatisation) and old people dying on trolleys in hospital corridors.