Re: UK unemployment rises to 2.68m : Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:21 pm  

Dally wrote:

Personal debt IS the PRIME cause of the financial crisis.

Not really. The banks gambling with sub-prime debt is.

Re: UK unemployment rises to 2.68m : Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:21 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

You continue to lay the blame at the foot of individual borrowers, without ever accepting that in order for anyone to borrow, there has to be someone willing to lend. The ultimate arbiter of responsible borrowing/lending lies with the lender and for many years people with money (banks etc) were only too willing to lend to any idiot that walked through the door.

Do you right the Daily Mail? Only yesterday they were accusing Tesco of irresponsibility by selling discounted chocolate bars. Appraently, that's what makes people fat. Not the fact that they buy them and stuff their faces with them.

People make their own choices and should accept the consequences of their decisions.

Re: UK unemployment rises to 2.68m : Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:24 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

As for your assertion that we should be saving rather than spending, that's really the way to get the economy moving again isn't it?

It's the way to fund investment in manufacturing rather than living in a "consumer" society.

Re: UK unemployment rises to 2.68m : Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:25 pm  

Rock God X wrote:

Or, if we keep people in jobs and pay them enough to live on, they could spend money they have got.

But how are those jobs paid for?

Re: UK unemployment rises to 2.68m : Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:28 pm  

Rock God X wrote:

Not really. The banks gambling with sub-prime debt is.

No it is sub-prime debt that's the issue. The banks playing around zeroes out.

Re: UK unemployment rises to 2.68m : Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:33 pm  

Dally wrote:

Do you right the Daily Mail? Only yesterday they were accusing Tesco of irresponsibility by selling discounted chocolate bars. Appraently, that's what makes people fat. Not the fact that they buy them and stuff their faces with them.

I was unaware that the Dally Wail had been wronged but thanks for introducing a straw man, how very Dally of you

Dally wrote:

People make their own choices and should accept the consequences of their decisions.

People are accepting the consequences of any decision to borrow, unfortunately they are also living with the consequences of casino banking too. Not only are people repaying their own debts, they are funding the extravagant lifestyles of the those who got us into this mess

Re: UK unemployment rises to 2.68m : Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:33 pm  

Dally wrote:

No it is sub-prime debt that's the issue. The banks playing around zeroes out.

I don't even know what your second sentence is supposed to mean. As regards your first one, I've yet to hear a single commentator say that the prime cause of the crisis was personal indebtedness. Most mention it as an aggravating factor only.

Re: UK unemployment rises to 2.68m : Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:38 pm  

Dally wrote:

But how are those jobs paid for?

We could start by closing tax loopholes for the likes of Tesco and Vodafone. We could continue by making those companies pay their employees a living wage so that the tax payer didn't have to subside their profits via tax credits and whatnot.

Re: UK unemployment rises to 2.68m : Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:41 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

I was unaware that the Dally Wail had been wronged but thanks for introducing a straw man, how very Dally of you

People are accepting the consequences of any decision to borrow, unfortunately they are also living with the consequences of casino banking too. Not only are people repaying their own debts, they are funding the extravagant lifestyles of the those who got us into this mess

What do you mean by casino banking?

Re: UK unemployment rises to 2.68m : Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:45 pm  

Rock God X wrote:

We could start by closing tax loopholes for the likes of Tesco and Vodafone. We could continue by making those companies pay their employees a living wage so that the tax payer didn't have to subside their profits via tax credits and whatnot.

But that's contradictory. If the companies were taxed more heavily that would mean they had less avaiable to pay wages. So, I can only take it that you mean public sector jobs. That smacks of a society without personal freedoms and with a small minority dictating to the majority about what they should do in all facets of their lives. That sysyem has ffailed around the world. Free trade and freedoms go hand in hand. So, we should be promoting free trade (albeit with the state punishing miscreants heavily).