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Re: Olympic Army : Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:47 pm  
dr_feelgood wrote:
Just heard on 5Live that G4S are going to pay for the additional cost of the 3500 additional military personnel who will be pressed into service and that because of this they will make a loss of between £30 and $50 million on the contract. If i was a share holder I would be asking some serious questionsof the board of directors and senior management.


I am finding that seriously difficult to believe when you consider the uprate in charging they were allowed to factor in.

They may be hoping that no one looks too closely at the other contracts they've been gifted by the UK taxpayer
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Re: Olympic Army : Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:06 pm  
dr_feelgood wrote:
Just heard on 5Live that G4S are going to pay for the additional cost of the 3500 additional military personnel who will be pressed into service and that because of this they will make a loss of between £30 and $50 million on the contract. If i was a share holder I would be asking some serious questionsof the board of directors and senior management.



Being of a very sceptical nature I don't quite read (for instance) the BBC's report on the G4S statement http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18837524 which states that the company will lose up to £50million of their contract - its a very fine and pedantic point but thats not the same as making an overall loss of £50million on your work.

Its clear that the Home Office are now saying that a large portion of the POTENTIAL earnings of G4S during the actual period of the Olympics would have been paid to cover wages for the 10400 staff and that as they won't now be supplying that number then they won't be receiving some of that money - a company man would therefore be justified in stating that they will lose £50m from the contract - see the difference - and that is all that the statement on the BBC News web site is saying (at the time of posting this message).
dr_feelgood wrote:
Just heard on 5Live that G4S are going to pay for the additional cost of the 3500 additional military personnel who will be pressed into service and that because of this they will make a loss of between £30 and $50 million on the contract. If i was a share holder I would be asking some serious questionsof the board of directors and senior management.



Being of a very sceptical nature I don't quite read (for instance) the BBC's report on the G4S statement http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18837524 which states that the company will lose up to £50million of their contract - its a very fine and pedantic point but thats not the same as making an overall loss of £50million on your work.

Its clear that the Home Office are now saying that a large portion of the POTENTIAL earnings of G4S during the actual period of the Olympics would have been paid to cover wages for the 10400 staff and that as they won't now be supplying that number then they won't be receiving some of that money - a company man would therefore be justified in stating that they will lose £50m from the contract - see the difference - and that is all that the statement on the BBC News web site is saying (at the time of posting this message).
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Re: Olympic Army : Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:14 pm  
Ian P wrote:
...

9/11 If US knew those planes where going to or thought they might have caused the death and destruction they did would they have shot them down ?

I think they would and think we would


What's sad is that in many cases, the terrorists have already won; here, for instance, we actually have superficially sane, intelligent people, actually advocating that the State should shoot down a passenger jet full of innocent civilians, at an unknown toll of death and destruction at some random location, as this is somehow "better" than taking the risk the plane might be destined for an Olympic venue.

There are indeed many people in the States who would rather their government shot down an airliner than let it potentially crash into (say) the White House or the Pentagon. As if murdering hundreds or thousands of your own citizens is somehow a victory if you don't let the terrorists knock down a famous building. If you don't see why that's nuts then there is nothing I can say to you.

In answer to your question, I ask you to think carefully about it and answer again yourself. What caused most of the deaths on 9/11 was NOT the plane crashes but the totally unpredictable collapse of the buildings, and compounded by the ignorance of the majority of the casualties above the impacts of the existence of a secondary fire escape route.

But it has already been posited on here that a plane crashing into any given city area will only cause relatively localised damage. (This must be true, although the proponents overlook that this would not be a low speed impact and the casualties would be widespread and worse than is suggested). And it would (but for the collapses) have been true of 9/11. So please explain to me how you would justify shooting down the Twin Tower planes, when the anticipated death toll from hitting the Twin Towers would only be the same as the plane crashing anywhere else in New York?

Please explain to me why it would be better to shoot down a plane rather than take the chance of it crashing into the White House, or the Pentagon, or a skyscraper?

Mercifully, none of you are in charge. I am certain that none of our armed forces would under any circumstances shoot down a planeful of innocent civilians, murdering many more on the ground. There is a risk that not doing so would allow a target such as the Olympic village to be struck but the blood would be on the hands of the terrorists, and not our own government.

The other fact overlooked is that no aircraft could be hijacked like the 9/11 hijacks, simply because the terrorists would not have access to the cockpit, and because the cockpit crew are armed. I also believe that following 9/11 you would not nowadays get a planeful of passengers who would meekly await their fate. Those people probably expected to land somewhere remote, and be negotiated as hostages. Nowadays, people would certainly think, if they don't attack the hijackers, then they are dead anyway, so they would have nothing to lose. Indeed that was already demonstrated by the passengers on UA 93, who got word what had happened elsewhere.
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Re: Olympic Army : Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:48 am  
JerryChicken wrote:
Being of a very sceptical nature I don't quite read (for instance) the BBC's report on the G4S statement http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18837524 which states that the company will lose up to £50million of their contract - its a very fine and pedantic point but thats not the same as making an overall loss of £50million on your work.

Its clear that the Home Office are now saying that a large portion of the POTENTIAL earnings of G4S during the actual period of the Olympics would have been paid to cover wages for the 10400 staff and that as they won't now be supplying that number then they won't be receiving some of that money - a company man would therefore be justified in stating that they will lose £50m from the contract - see the difference - and that is all that the statement on the BBC News web site is saying (at the time of posting this message).


That's the way I see it: conflating not receiving an extra £50m with losing £50m.

Tells us plenty of the company's culture I suppose
JerryChicken wrote:
Being of a very sceptical nature I don't quite read (for instance) the BBC's report on the G4S statement http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18837524 which states that the company will lose up to £50million of their contract - its a very fine and pedantic point but thats not the same as making an overall loss of £50million on your work.

Its clear that the Home Office are now saying that a large portion of the POTENTIAL earnings of G4S during the actual period of the Olympics would have been paid to cover wages for the 10400 staff and that as they won't now be supplying that number then they won't be receiving some of that money - a company man would therefore be justified in stating that they will lose £50m from the contract - see the difference - and that is all that the statement on the BBC News web site is saying (at the time of posting this message).


That's the way I see it: conflating not receiving an extra £50m with losing £50m.

Tells us plenty of the company's culture I suppose
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cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"

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"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan

Re: Olympic Army : Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:04 am  
At the very least, as a gesture to all those extra servicemen who have now been inconvenienced through having leave cancelled, due to G4S's sheer and utter incompetence, the company should fund all-expenses paid holidays for them and their families, to a resort of their choice.
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cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"

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"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan

Re: Olympic Army : Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:44 am  
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Re: Olympic Army : Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:08 am  
cod'ead wrote:
That's the way I see it: conflating not receiving an extra £50m with losing £50m.

Tells us plenty of the company's culture I suppose


There was an interview with someone (the CEO?) of G4S on radio 4 this morning, he stated this contract was for 270ish million, but would cost them about 310ish.

Mind he also squirmed a lot when asked how they'd managed to bollox things up so comprehensively given they signed the deal close to 3 years ago.
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Re: Olympic Army : Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:29 am  
There is a lot of conflicting information appearing in the press over G4S as can be seen in the history of this thread - in this report http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/14/london-2012-olympic-security-g4s their CEO re-states the position that his company may lose up to £50m on their contract because of penalties while David Cameron blusters in with a statement that companies who fail in their commitments will be persued for refunds and penalties, while seemingly unaware that earlier in the week the Independant reported that the G4S contract did not include penalty clauses but seemed to be structured in a supermarket-style procurement procedure where the Olympic organisers can pay-as-you-go from shelves full of trained security staff.

And now (in that first article) we learn that the CEO of G4S only found out 8 days ago that they weren't able to fulfil the clients requirements.

Its wearing a bit thin as an excuse isn't it ?

Every time a business fails in its basic requirement to provide a service to its customers the CEO pleads that he/she has only just found out yesterday and presumably the day before yesterday thought that they were running a simply wonderful company.

WTF does your average CEO do these days anyway, I know that if I fart in the office my company MD is downstairs with a can of air freshener and an invitation to a disciplinary hearing within minutes.
There is a lot of conflicting information appearing in the press over G4S as can be seen in the history of this thread - in this report http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/14/london-2012-olympic-security-g4s their CEO re-states the position that his company may lose up to £50m on their contract because of penalties while David Cameron blusters in with a statement that companies who fail in their commitments will be persued for refunds and penalties, while seemingly unaware that earlier in the week the Independant reported that the G4S contract did not include penalty clauses but seemed to be structured in a supermarket-style procurement procedure where the Olympic organisers can pay-as-you-go from shelves full of trained security staff.

And now (in that first article) we learn that the CEO of G4S only found out 8 days ago that they weren't able to fulfil the clients requirements.

Its wearing a bit thin as an excuse isn't it ?

Every time a business fails in its basic requirement to provide a service to its customers the CEO pleads that he/she has only just found out yesterday and presumably the day before yesterday thought that they were running a simply wonderful company.

WTF does your average CEO do these days anyway, I know that if I fart in the office my company MD is downstairs with a can of air freshener and an invitation to a disciplinary hearing within minutes.
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Re: Olympic Army : Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:33 am  
http://www.g4s.com/en/Who%20we%20are/Ou ... 0profiles/

http://www.g4s.com/en/Who%20we%20are/Ou ... 0profiles/


I fuçking hate non executive directors. You'd think that with all these accountants they'd have known about a "loss"
http://www.g4s.com/en/Who%20we%20are/Ou ... 0profiles/

http://www.g4s.com/en/Who%20we%20are/Ou ... 0profiles/


I fuçking hate non executive directors. You'd think that with all these accountants they'd have known about a "loss"
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Re: Olympic Army : Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:23 pm  
What's also worrying is they don't seem to be doing proper background checks on any of the staff who will be searching bags etc. A terrorist organisation could have it's members hired and let bombs etc into the stadiums.
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