Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Tue May 12, 2020 7:19 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Given that most of the morons who don't follow the rules are young who mostly vote Labour I suggest your views are without either substance or validity.

I suppose the Tory voters like to have some input into their life - they don't need the control of the state like you lefties.

So you know for a FACT that as you put it "Most of the Morons who dont follow the rules " are young and mostly vote Labour?
Can you provide a link to your source please? I'm interested to know how you come to this conclusion

Yet

It's the "Tory voters like to have some input into their life - they don't need the control of the state like you lefties"

Which could be interpreted quite reasonably IMO becuase o cant think what else it could mean as, were Tories we know best, follow our rules that we dont need need to follow.

As Bojo says this just needs people to use "Good, solid, British common sense!".
That'll get the flag wavers going.

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Tue May 12, 2020 8:08 am  

TURFEDOUT wrote:

The advice was for face coverings not masks.

Below is from strategy paper released today.

"Face-coverings
As more people return to work, there will be more movement outside people's immediate household. This increased mobility means the Government is now advising that people should aim to wear a face-covering in enclosed spaces where social distancing is not always possible and they come into contact with others that they do not normally meet, for example on public transport or in some shops. Homemade cloth face-coverings can help reduce the risk of transmission in some circumstances. Face-coverings are not intended to help the wearer, but to protect against inadvertent transmission of the disease to others if you have it asymptomatically.
A face covering is not the same as a facemask such as the surgical masks or respirators used as part of personal protective equipment by healthcare and other workers. These supplies must continue to be reserved for those who need it. Face-coverings should not be used by children under the age of two, or those who may find it difficult to manage them correctly, for example primary age children unassisted, or those with respiratory conditions. It is important to use face- coverings properly and wash your hands before putting them on and taking them off."

Sorry for not being more specific, I'll try harder next time.
However, the point still stands.

There is now an instant need for several million face coverings and remembering what happened with Toilet rolls (or is that Toilet tissue) and flour, rice, pasta etc, is there sufficient stock of these items in the UK ?

Btw, you best have a word with the BBC, they have a how to make your own FACE MASK article on the daily coronavirus thread

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Tue May 12, 2020 8:18 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Given that most of the morons who don't follow the rules are young who mostly vote Labour I suggest your views are without either substance or validity.

I suppose the Tory voters like to have some input into their life - they don't need the control of the state like you lefties.

Absolute nonsense.
Have you been in a supermarket lately ?

The people going in in pairs and not observing social distancing are middle aged / older people who have "always gone together" and 9/10 have a copy of the Mail and Express in their trolley (or trollies, as they now trundle round the shop in a mini convoy.
They are the same generation who say, we got through this, that or, the other and carry on, even though they are the most vulnerable. My own parents are guilty of doing just this but, trying to get them to change their habits is impossible and they're too stubborn to listen.
Yes, at the other end of the scale are the "yoof", some who obey the rules to the letter and others who please themselves, without thought or consequence for how their actions may affect others.

If you can tell me which one of these groups are likely to vote Labour, I'll get a message to Kier Starmer because he's going to need some extra votes

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Tue May 12, 2020 8:56 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Absolute nonsense.
Have you been in a supermarket lately ?

The people going in in pairs and not observing social distancing are middle aged / older people who have "always gone together" and 9/10 have a copy of the Mail and Express in their trolley (or trollies, as they now trundle round the shop in a mini convoy.
They are the same generation who say, we got through this, that or, the other and carry on, even though they are the most vulnerable. My own parents are guilty of doing just this but, trying to get them to change their habits is impossible and they're too stubborn to listen.
Yes, at the other end of the scale are the "yoof", some who obey the rules to the letter and others who please themselves, without thought or consequence for how their actions may affect others.

If you can tell me which one of these groups are likely to vote Labour, I'll get a message to Kier Starmer because he's going to need some extra votes

Have to agree with you on this point, I don't think a specific demographic voter is flouting the rules, heck, some of the Governments own ministers can't stay within the rules. Changing the message was a mistake, the balancebetween needing people back to work (in reality, getting the furlough bill down) is a very fine one. In hindsight (am I allowed that, with me being a Conservative?) furlough should only have been made available to business with a certain range of turnover, staff numbers, cash and assets etc. But there are a lot of things we would all change with hindsight.

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Tue May 12, 2020 9:23 am  

IR80 wrote:

Have to agree with you on this point, I don't think a specific demographic voter is flouting the rules, heck, some of the Governments own ministers can't stay within the rules. Changing the message was a mistake, the balancebetween needing people back to work (in reality, getting the furlough bill down) is a very fine one. In hindsight (am I allowed that, with me being a Conservative?) furlough should only have been made available to business with a certain range of turnover, staff numbers, cash and assets etc. But there are a lot of things we would all change with hindsight.

See we can agree

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Tue May 12, 2020 9:34 am  

IR80 wrote:

Have to agree with you on this point, I don't think a specific demographic voter is flouting the rules, heck, some of the Governments own ministers can't stay within the rules. Changing the message was a mistake, the balancebetween needing people back to work (in reality, getting the furlough bill down) is a very fine one. In hindsight (am I allowed that, with me being a Conservative?) furlough should only have been made available to business with a certain range of turnover, staff numbers, cash and assets etc. But there are a lot of things we would all change with hindsight.

Personally, if a business can run "safely"(as much as is reasonably possible and it's employees are not vulnerable, they should be doing so.
Clearly, allowing those who are carers or "vulnerable" need to be shielding anyway but, the show must go on.

Having said that, with the huge downturn in the ecconomy, many businesses are more than happy to be able to furlough their staff, as there is no work for them to be doing.
I dont think the government had too much choice in doing something quite drastic though, as we all need to eat and without some "reasonable" income, people would have simply ignored the lockdown and continued with their normal routine.

I do think that there needs to be some easing of restrictions between families seeing one another, if not, people will simply ignore the advice and see each other anyway.
You do wonder what happens when it starts raining. We have been lucky with the weather over the last 6-8 weeks and queuing is no great hardship when the sun is shining but, everyone will be a whole load more impatient when they are getting soaked.

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Tue May 12, 2020 10:29 am  

Wonder if the Spitter was Labour or Tory? Young or Old?
Was the lady who has died that was spat at Labour or Tory? A Leftie who just wants a Nanny State
Did she vote Leave or Remain?

Victoria Station worker dies with coronavirus after being spat at
A ticket office worker at London's Victoria Station has died with coronavirus after being spat at while on duty.
Belly Mujinga, 47, was on the station concourse in March when a member of the public claiming to have Covid-19 spat and coughed at her and a colleague, the Transport Salaried Staffs Association (TSSA) said. Within days of the assault, both women fell ill with the virus.

Whilst at the same time :-
A key worker has said that social distancing was “impossible to maintain” on his tube journey to work on Tuesday morning.
Terry McCarthy, 37, a supermarket store manager, took a photo at Canada Water at 7am and shared it to Twitter with the caption: "And they try to tell us the tube is at 5 per cent capacity! This is dangerous and putting lives at risk!”
He said that his place of work was too far away to walk or cycle to.
Both the platform and the train were busier than what it has been the last few weeks.
There were too many people in the carriage and social distancing was impossible to maintain

And at the same time :-
BREAKING:
The number of deaths in the UK involving coronavirus has passed 40,000, analysis of officials statistics shows.
And
Covid-19 deaths 24% higher in England as care home fatalities soar
Covid-19 deaths in England were 24 per cent higher than previously reported, according to new data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS).

I was accused earlier of dismissing people opinions based on who they are, or who their politics aligned with.
Nothing could be further from the truth

I believe the Furlough scheme if anything was too generous and the government should have looked at maybe limiting that (From someone who has 3 people furloughed in the household - albeit 1 has a main job that can carry on as normal). And also the business relief program was over generous in some instances.
For example and I mentioned Bowling in another post, I run/am director of a Cricket/bowling/social club and we qualified for the small grant of 10k - We will need that and that's fantastic and I would say pitched at the right level. I know of 2 Bowling greens that are just that, a Green, with no clubhouse/staff etc. with very little income but then again very little Overheads, and somehow they qualify for the same 10k. That will last them 10years!!!
What I do believe however is that a lot of the trumpeting about the "Success" the government had achieved was based on those kinds of "Generous" Financial policies and it was a smokescreen for a lot of their mistakes made 6/8 weeks earlier in not taking this threat seriously enough and all that came with it over the next 6/8 weeks.

The announcement Sunday was riddled with issues, my own friend said he thought it was "easy to understand" and then within the next 5mins both if us asked numerous questions that we had no idea on - some of that was resolved yesterday, a lot hasn't.

Why was there such a rush to get this out Sunday night, with all the holes in it, why wasn't there earlier and better communication with Devolved governments? etc.

I understand that people voted for Boris for a variety of reasons
Get Brexit done.
Corbyn is a Communist
etc.

There are as many people on that side of the fence blindly defending the government due to their previous alignment on the above and other issues to "Prove" they were right to vote Boris.

That's fine
But don't be surprised, just as if the shoe was on the other foot, of others quite rightly IMO questions things when they believe things have been done incorrectly/badly.

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Tue May 12, 2020 3:19 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Absolute nonsense.
Have you been in a supermarket lately ?

The people going in in pairs and not observing social distancing are middle aged / older people who have "always gone together" and 9/10 have a copy of the Mail and Express in their trolley (or trollies, as they now trundle round the shop in a mini convoy.
They are the same generation who say, we got through this, that or, the other and carry on, even though they are the most vulnerable. My own parents are guilty of doing just this but, trying to get them to change their habits is impossible and they're too stubborn to listen.
Yes, at the other end of the scale are the "yoof", some who obey the rules to the letter and others who please themselves, without thought or consequence for how their actions may affect others.

If you can tell me which one of these groups are likely to vote Labour, I'll get a message to Kier Starmer because he's going to need some extra votes

Is there an issue with couples living together going shopping together in the current climate

If 9/10 buy any newspaper these days I’ll show my arris

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Tue May 12, 2020 6:41 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Sorry for not being more specific, I'll try harder next time.
However, the point still stands.

There is now an instant need for several million face coverings and remembering what happened with Toilet rolls (or is that Toilet tissue) and flour, rice, pasta etc, is there sufficient stock of these items in the UK ?

Btw, you best have a word with the BBC, they have a how to make your own FACE MASK article on the daily coronavirus thread

Try as hard as you like,but not sure your point is valid.
The advice isn't to go out and stock up on the same type of equipment used as PPE,so there shouldn't be any serious consequences for the people that need surgical or respirator masks.

BTW Followed the BBC instructions and made a few spare,happy to send you one free of charge if you're struggling to get hold of one.

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Tue May 12, 2020 8:56 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Sorry for not being more specific, I'll try harder next time.
However, the point still stands.

There is now an instant need for several million face coverings and remembering what happened with Toilet rolls (or is that Toilet tissue) and flour, rice, pasta etc, is there sufficient stock of these items in the UK ?

Btw, you best have a word with the BBC, they have a how to make your own FACE MASK article on the daily coronavirus thread

What's this? You've suddenly realised that there may be massive demand for face masks? Why, it's almost as though you've finally accepted the current global crisis might make it tough to get hold of items of PPE.

As it happens, you can get them fairly easily now - but pretty much just the cheap paper ones that are neither use nor ornament unless you are infected, and then only to benefit people around you, not you. Medical-grade PPE quite rightly is being prioritised.

I've explained before - as has TURFEDOUT - that the vast majority of face masks are largely useless if the virus is in the air (unless FFP3 and professionally fitted - i.e. sealed to the face). Those folds at the side of the mask? That's where the air you breath comes in, not through the mask. However, a face covering may help reduce the spread from someone who is infected by soaking up droplets from their exhaled breath, coughs, etc.

BTW, not that it really matters whether you call it a mask or a covering - taken from the BBC article:

BBC wrote:

While medical face masks and respirators are prioritised for health and care workers, you might want to try making your own face covering.

As it happens I bought a reusable FFP2-certified 'snood'-type face cover back in March, as it seemed clear to me we would require face coverings at some point and I'm able to think for myself, have a degree of common sense and don't rely on others to spell things out for me. Do you own a scarf? Or have an old t-shirt and aren't completely useless? Can you fashion something to cover your nose & mouth? Or will you just complain?

Is this yet another case of the left needing their backsides wiping?