Re: General Election 8th June : Tue May 23, 2017 3:21 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I wouldn't work in a place where I didn't think I was getting the correct pay and conditions

Good for you - some people don't have that choice though.

It's a sad state of affairs when we've arrived at a point where not giving a f**k about other people is, in some quarters, a badge of pride.

Re: General Election 8th June : Tue May 23, 2017 3:58 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I wouldn't work in a place where I didn't think I was getting the correct pay and conditions, this is not a nanny state - perhaps things weren't quite so bad for most of the workers at Ashley's RDC - just a thought.

So, an employer breaks employment law and it's the workers fault for taking the job.
Following this logic, if someone gets injured at work due to poor or non existent health and safety practice's, would that also be "their own fault" ?
Just asking as your world seems somewhat skewed ?

Re: General Election 8th June : Tue May 23, 2017 6:17 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

So, an employer breaks employment law and it's the workers fault for taking the job.
Following this logic, if someone gets injured at work due to poor or non existent health and safety practice's, would that also be "their own fault" ?
Just asking as your world seems somewhat skewed ?

The two things are not quite the same - would you work in a place that was unsafe no, would you work in a place where they didn't pay you the minimum wage no - so how is it you can make these choices which are common sense but you support others who can't make these simple choices?

I know you lefties think the state should own and control everything we do and give us a bit of pocket money as long it doesn't include you and you sit at the top of the food chain. There has to come a point where individuals have to take some responsibility for their own actions?

I asked have you ever offered to earn less so others can earn more - I take it given you didn't respond that is a big no!! Says it all real talk the talk but don't walk the walk - so who has the skewed opinions?

I also talked about the NHS - again no response, talked about taxation no response - not a huge surprise like a lot of lefties the arrogance of believing their ethics are on a higher plane when in fact your actions show exactly the opposite

Re: General Election 8th June : Wed May 24, 2017 6:38 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

The two things are not quite the same - would you work in a place that was unsafe no, would you work in a place where they didn't pay you the minimum wage no - so how is it you can make these choices which are common sense but you support others who can't make these simple choices?

I know you lefties think the state should own and control everything we do and give us a bit of pocket money as long it doesn't include you and you sit at the top of the food chain. There has to come a point where individuals have to take some responsibility for their own actions?

I asked have you ever offered to earn less so others can earn more - I take it given you didn't respond that is a big no!! Says it all real talk the talk but don't walk the walk - so who has the skewed opinions?

I also talked about the NHS - again no response, talked about taxation no response - not a huge surprise like a lot of lefties the arrogance of believing their ethics are on a higher plane when in fact your actions show exactly the opposite

You're still trying to justify blatant wrong doing and because you have been picked up on it, i'm a leftie

You say that breaking employment law in one direction is not the same as flouting H & S law.
Well, it comes down to how well you run your business doesn't it.

Your argument about earning less so that someone can earn more is part of life but, avoiding LEGAL obligations isn't.

Individuals do have to take responsibility, which includes adhering to the law when it comes to paying staff.

As for taxation, again, I assume that you were happy for disabled people to lose their payments, whilst at the same time, promising a tax cut for the better off, mind you, there was a U turn on this one, again.

For your information, I've been a company director for over 20 years and I have NEVER authorised paying people below minimum wage and nor would I and if that makes me a leftie, I'm happy to be one.

NHS - I'm sure that we covered this one.

Our government and the right wing media are trying hard to blame it's short comings and missing targets on immigration and yet its clear to see that, if we want a service for all, there has to be proper funding and I would be happy for my income tax to increase to ensure that it survives.

IS THIS CLEAR ENOUGH

Re: General Election 8th June : Wed May 24, 2017 1:37 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I asked have you ever offered to earn less so others can earn more - I take it given you didn't respond that is a big no!! Says it all real talk the talk but don't walk the walk - so who has the skewed opinions?

Yes - 3 times in the last 2 years; and it doesn't help your argument to characterise people who care about the welfare of those most in need as well as their own, as raging lefties who want the state to own everything.

What's at stake here is an entirely different kind of economy - and given the parlous state of the UK right now, it's not unreasonable to be prepared to support it.

Re: General Election 8th June : Wed May 24, 2017 3:32 pm  

bren2k wrote:

Yes - 3 times in the last 2 years; and it doesn't help your argument to characterise people who care about the welfare of those most in need as well as their own, as raging lefties who want the state to own everything.

What's at stake here is an entirely different kind of economy - and given the parlous state of the UK right now, it's not unreasonable to be prepared to support it.

What's at stake is an style of economy that has been shown on numerous occasions not work - so I think it is entirely unreasonable to expect support for what is a flawed arrangement.

Show me a Socialist state that is thriving?

Re: General Election 8th June : Wed May 24, 2017 3:49 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

You're still trying to justify blatant wrong doing and because you have been picked up on it, i'm a leftie

You say that breaking employment law in one direction is not the same as flouting H & S law.
Well, it comes down to how well you run your business doesn't it.

Your argument about earning less so that someone can earn more is part of life but, avoiding LEGAL obligations isn't.

Individuals do have to take responsibility, which includes adhering to the law when it comes to paying staff.

As for taxation, again, I assume that you were happy for disabled people to lose their payments, whilst at the same time, promising a tax cut for the better off, mind you, there was a U turn on this one, again.

For your information, I've been a company director for over 20 years and I have NEVER authorised paying people below minimum wage and nor would I and if that makes me a leftie, I'm happy to be one.

NHS - I'm sure that we covered this one.

Our government and the right wing media are trying hard to blame it's short comings and missing targets on immigration and yet its clear to see that, if we want a service for all, there has to be proper funding and I would be happy for my income tax to increase to ensure that it survives.

IS THIS CLEAR ENOUGH

You seem fixated on one point where you think you have an edge. I never said it was OK for Ashley not to pay the minimum wage. Its a legal obligation and as such he needs to adhere to the law. I would suspect he hasn't intentionally set out to do that but it can happen but he is rich so he must be clobbered!!

I haven't seen any example of Ashley breaking H&S laws so I would suggest the minimum wage was a genuine oversight and not a corporate culture - but again his rich so he must be clobbered.

Ashley did take responsibility and appears to have got matters sorted - most people are not perfect and they make mistakes it how you deal with them that shows what kind of person you are. He is rich so that can overlooked by the likes of you.

The promise of a tax cut was an attempt to increase the overall tax take - is that such a bad thing? CT rates have been reduced but the overall take from CT has increased is that really such a bad thing? You want more money for your disabled people what better way than increasing the tax take? Your view is blinded from simple logic by in built predudice

I would be happy to pay more for the NHS once the direction, waste and abuses of the service have been sorted - it seems crazy to pump money in willy nilly.

IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH?

Re: General Election 8th June : Wed May 24, 2017 6:05 pm  

At least we've finally agreed that they (sports direct) were in the wrong, halleluyah

Back to the NHS.
Where has anyone said we should just throw money at it ??
I've said it is underfunded and that the Tory press and the Tory party are throwing a smokescreen of "too many immigrants abusing the service" in order to cover the underfunding.
We've had 7 years of austerity cuts and whilst something had to be don to address the budget deficit, there has been a pretence of system abuse.
People haven't suddenly started going to casualty, instead of seeing their doctor, it's happened for years.
Clearly wrong and educating people will help reduce this aspect.
Also "health tourists", again not acceptable but, not the reason that the NHS is "failing".

Whichever party gains power, needs to front up and give us a firm choice, similar to the Libdems policy.
However, it's more likely that the NHS will be kicked about as a political football, rather than dealing with the need for funding.

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu May 25, 2017 11:35 am  

My postal vote has been returned today. 2 votes from our house for Mr Gove MP.
I populated the missus's form to make sure it was completed correctly. Every little helps.

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu May 25, 2017 11:50 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Show me a Socialist state that is thriving?

I would argue that the strongest economies, the most stable, have high degrees of control of their economies, have high levels of state ownership of energy, water, rail, health service & social care. These are the areas the left is arguing for. None of the main left/liberal parties are arguing for complete state ownership of every enterprise. But that doesn't fit your warped view.