Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:38 am  

bren2k wrote:

I agree; I'm a big supporter of Mr Corbyn and agree with most of his policies - but I'm profoundly disappointed that Labour isn't working harder on his original model - stay in, but reform.

Because it's a complete waste of time.

The EU have shown time and time again they are simply not open to reform. Their top people have said it over and over: the 'pillars' shall not be moved. Cameron did the rounds looking for support to reform and found a cowed and brainwashed EU unwilling to rock the boat. Even now, when one of its biggest members is leaving, they simply cannot accept the ideal is fatally flawed.

If you know Germans and Germanics as well as I do, you know they never admit they are wrong. The EU, therefore, will plod inevitably along its disastrous path and continue to disrupt the entire continent and fail to handle the shambles of freedom of movement, the immigration crisis and the Euro.

Progressive liberalism at its best.

That is pretty much the main reason I voted to leave.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:50 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Wage stagnation has being going on in this country since 2008 its not a result of Brexit and perhaps explains why productivity is so sluggish. Inflation at 2% is hardly roaring and most would suggest some inflation is a good thing.

I would agree about May and her team on Brexit - completely out of the depth

I was replying to the post saying that we hadn't dropped off the proverbial cliff edge yet, despite all the doom mongers predictions

Wage stagnation doesnt explain why productivity is sluggish, surely it's the other way round (ie.poor productivity is suppressing potential wage growth) ??
The main reason for poor wage growth is so many years of austerity cuts and despite "huge" numbers of "new" jobs being creates, the vast, vast majority of these are at the bottom end of the salary scale (zero hours, apprenticeships, faux self employed etc). Add to this sluggish growth and very few are seeing any decent growth in their salaries and if you work for the public sector, the situation is gloomier still.
(btw inflation is now over 3% and rising, primarily due to the falling value of the £, the small increase in interest rates may temper this slightly but, interest rates are likely to go up again, albeit slightly, which will start to squeeze growth).

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:51 pm  

Austerity only hits the public sector and they have actually done better in terms of increases than the private sector.

Lack of productivity is down to poor management and their inability to adapt to concepts such as kaizen.

The BOE were concerned when inflation was zero and the last we all want is deflation so 2/3% is quite normal/healthy. Interest rates might get to 1% within 3 years hardly recession driving.

I think on Brexit the Europeans have also realised no deal would be a very bad thing for them too and a touch of realism is starting to emerge.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:06 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Austerity only hits the public sector and they have actually done better in terms of increases than the private sector.

Lack of productivity is down to poor management and their inability to adapt to concepts such as kaizen.

The BOE were concerned when inflation was zero and the last we all want is deflation so 2/3% is quite normal/healthy. Interest rates might get to 1% within 3 years hardly recession driving.

I think on Brexit the Europeans have also realised no deal would be a very bad thing for them too and a touch of realism is starting to emerge.

How can you say that austerity only hits the public sector ?
Do you not think there is a ripple effect on where that money is spent, which squeezes the high street as well as the supply chain into the public sector, in turn suppressing profitability and ability to increase wages outside the public sector.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:57 am  

Cronus wrote:

Because it's a complete waste of time.

I'm not sure that's true - and we'd at least have a chance of it if we stayed in and worked towards it, whilst maintaining free trade with a bloc that currently accounts for about 50% of our exports.

It strikes me that the 'pillar' that causes your average Brexiter the greatest consternation is free movement; and the scandal of that is that the UK Government had the ability to be much more robust whilst staying within EU rules, but chose not to.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:06 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

How can you say that austerity only hits the public sector ?
Do you not think there is a ripple effect on where that money is spent, which squeezes the high street as well as the supply chain into the public sector, in turn suppressing profitability and ability to increase wages outside the public sector.

Because austerity is how the government has restricted wage growth within the public sector - it cannot influence the private sector other than via the minimum wage.

These two areas have seen the biggest % wage growth amongst most workers - the bosses that's a different story!!

Profit's are suppressed because of a lack of investment in capital items probably due to the banks' lack of appetite for lending and poor management in the middle tier of management.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:07 pm  

bren2k wrote:

I'm not sure that's true - and we'd at least have a chance of it if we stayed in and worked towards it, whilst maintaining free trade with a bloc that currently accounts for about 50% of our exports.

Why would you when most of the members and the EU itself have repeatedly stated they absolutely not open to reform? At what point do you decide your efforts are wasted and it's time to move on?

It strikes me that the 'pillar' that causes your average Brexiter the greatest consternation is free movement; and the scandal of that is that the UK Government had the ability to be much more robust whilst staying within EU rules, but chose not to.

Well, yes, because it's been a feckin stunningly idiotic idea since it was first proposed, presumably in some dark & smoky Munich beer hall.

I'm not sure how you expected the UK Government to be 'more robust' with a directive mandating complete freedom of movement for all EU citizens? How exactly could they be more robust without facing the wrath of the Brussels Stazi?

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:35 am  

Cronus wrote: I'm not sure how you expected the UK Government to be 'more robust' with a directive mandating complete freedom of movement for all EU citizens? How exactly could they be more robust without facing the wrath of the Brussels Stazi? That's not true. The UK was in fact one of only 3 countries that didn't use the measures that were available to them, quite legally, to limit freedom of movement.

Cronus wrote: I'm not sure how you expected the UK Government to be 'more robust' with a directive mandating complete freedom of movement for all EU citizens? How exactly could they be more robust without facing the wrath of the Brussels Stazi? That's not true. The UK was in fact one of only 3 countries that didn't use the measures that were available to them, quite legally, to limit freedom of movement.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:32 pm  

bren2k wrote: That's not true. The UK was in fact one of only 3 countries that didn't use the measures that were available to them, quite legally, to limit freedom of movement. Ah yes, the infamous Blair move to irreversibly change the face of the UK, according to one of his own. A cynical and unforgivable attempt to bring in Labour voters and to force multiculturalism and diversity on a society that didn't need it, or indeed want it. Gee, thanks Tony, ya feckin witless muppet. And people think Thatcher damaged the country.

bren2k wrote: That's not true. The UK was in fact one of only 3 countries that didn't use the measures that were available to them, quite legally, to limit freedom of movement. Ah yes, the infamous Blair move to irreversibly change the face of the UK, according to one of his own. A cynical and unforgivable attempt to bring in Labour voters and to force multiculturalism and diversity on a society that didn't need it, or indeed want it. Gee, thanks Tony, ya feckin witless muppet. And people think Thatcher damaged the country.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:01 am  

Cronus wrote: Ah yes, the infamous Blair move to irreversibly change the face of the UK, according to one of his own. A cynical and unforgivable attempt to bring in Labour voters and to force multiculturalism and diversity on a society that didn't need it, or indeed want it. Gee, thanks Tony, ya feckin witless muppet. And people think Thatcher damaged the country. I think you've missed my point - I was talking about the fact the unlimited freedom of movement was never necessary as a condition of EU membership; the UK Government just chose not to use the powers it had available. And since the Tories engaged in project UKIP, they could have implemented it any time in the last 8 years, but again, chose not to - with one Mrs T May as the Home Secretary in charge of immigration policy.

Cronus wrote: Ah yes, the infamous Blair move to irreversibly change the face of the UK, according to one of his own. A cynical and unforgivable attempt to bring in Labour voters and to force multiculturalism and diversity on a society that didn't need it, or indeed want it. Gee, thanks Tony, ya feckin witless muppet. And people think Thatcher damaged the country. I think you've missed my point - I was talking about the fact the unlimited freedom of movement was never necessary as a condition of EU membership; the UK Government just chose not to use the powers it had available. And since the Tories engaged in project UKIP, they could have implemented it any time in the last 8 years, but again, chose not to - with one Mrs T May as the Home Secretary in charge of immigration policy.