Re: Brexit Anyone? : Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:13 pm  

DaveO wrote:

You seem to be of the quite frankly deluded opinion that if we leave the EU the cost you cite will vanish.

Do you honestly think Britain can negotiate a Free Trade agreement with the EU for access to the European Single Market and NOT pay to help fund institutions that run it and regulate it?

Do you honestly think the rules and regulations that apply to the European Single Market won't apply to us if we want to trade with them? Or that, just for us, the EU will relax the rule on the Free Movement of Labour?

If so I'd love to know why because it is quite clearly a nonsensical view to take.

Why? Just charge German exporters for part of the costs of running our government.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:41 pm  

Out. Sick of all the time it wastes. The last summit was it for me. Lots of well dressed politico's doing what they do best - serving their own self interest and making sure they all looked like tough guys for their home crowds.
It's a circus of epic proportions. The political elite of Europe can carry on telling us all what's best while we see the rise of the far right and ordinary people become more extreme because nobody in charge is listening to them.
The SNP are using "fear" (what a surprise) of leaving the EU to bring back independence to the table (that ship sailed guys - once in a generation). I guess they'd need massive EU subsidies to support their non existent economy until/if the oil price rises.

I don't care that the UKIP racists (take a look at some of their prominent supporters on Twitter) and some of the biggest rsoles in the country are also wanting to leave. I can't help that. Frankly, it's bad enough that those to33ers in Westminster try and run our lives, without having the Greek jokers, the French pinheads, the f******g Germans et al all having their say as well (and I mean their politicians not the people).

Peace is great, the human rights act is awesome, we should keep the good bits.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:06 am  

DHM - I think that imagery and associated complete sense of detachment from the reality of life was my biggest problem with the EU.

It reminds me a lot of Common People - "You're amazed that they exist". Just replace the rich Greek student with Eurocrats and MEPs.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:52 am  

We're being scare mongered to stay IN. For that reason I'm voting OUT.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:00 am  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

DHM - I think that imagery and associated complete sense of detachment from the reality of life was my biggest problem with the EU.

It reminds me a lot of Common People - "You're amazed that they exist". Just replace the rich Greek student with Eurocrats and MEPs.

I guess it is an enormous organization and you are bound to lose touch a little with what's happening on the street, but it's ridiculous now.
For some it's a social experiment, but they are so insulated from the effects it simply doesn't matter to them if it fails or succeeds. For others it's a place they can go to score points at home - Cameron came back like he'd cured cancer this week. I didn't think he could get any more puffed up with self importance but I was wrong on that one. The balloon soon deflated though when Boris stuck the knife in (by the way Boris, if we want to increase trade with the rest of the world outside Europe we are going to have to f******g go there - so stop bitching about a 3rd runway at Heathrow - CDG has 4, Frankfurt has 4, Schiphol has 6 etc.. etc..).

[Bullseye]

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:10 am  

I suspect if we did leave then this would push the Conservative Party (and Government) even further to the right as the swivel eyed mob would be firmly in charge. The likes of IDS and Liam Fox would be in positions of real power.

If anyone thinks we would then just keep the “good bits” of the EU like worker’s rights, environmental legislation etc you’re deluded.

That kind of stuff is seen as “red tape” and would be cut.

For that reason I’m saying Remain.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:27 am  

Doesn't matter one bit if you vote to stay in or out.....
Will anyone but 'goverment officials' be counting the votes?
There could be 90% to 10% out vote and we will still be staying in......
The worlds 'ELITE' wont allow us to leave anyway.
Every election is a fix and politicians only ever do what is best for them.
Still going to be voting OUT though .

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:09 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

I suspect if we did leave then this would push the Conservative Party (and Government) even further to the right as the swivel eyed mob would be firmly in charge. The likes of IDS and Liam Fox would be in positions of real power.

If anyone thinks we would then just keep the “good bits” of the EU like worker’s rights, environmental legislation etc you’re deluded.

That kind of stuff is seen as “red tape” and would be cut.

For that reason I’m saying Remain.

Absolutely spot on.
The River Mersey has salmon in it and the Manchester Ship Canal is used for open water swimming. In my youth, they were both open sewers. The change is a direct result of the EU limits on pollution discharge. It's not exactly hard to imagine industry lobbyists getting the law changed on the grounds the cost of it hurts their profits and sold by the right wing press as essential for business.
The fact Owen Patterson is vociferously pro-Brexit should be enough warning to anyone.

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:14 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

I suspect if we did leave then this would push the Conservative Party (and Government) even further to the right as the swivel eyed mob would be firmly in charge. The likes of IDS and Liam Fox would be in positions of real power.

If anyone thinks we would then just keep the “good bits” of the EU like worker’s rights, environmental legislation etc you’re deluded.

That kind of stuff is seen as “red tape” and would be cut.

For that reason I’m saying Remain.

Or it could cut the legs out from under the far right. No cause, no reason to exist. Frankly the idea of a Tory party led by IDS, Gove, Fox et al fills me with joy. Totally unelectable.
I don't think it's deluded to believe we can keep in place many of the rights gained over the last 20 years. A large part of the argument against the human rights act is that judgments appear to be "imposed" by other countries.

Ironic that if the British people had voted for the most left wing Labour Leader in modern times we would not be debating wasting billions on Trident, there would be no undemocratic house of Lords, we wouldn't have had the last 8 years of economic chaos with the banks (because they would all have been nationalized) and we wouldn't be in the EU.

[Bullseye]

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:33 pm  

DHM wrote:

Or it could cut the legs out from under the far right. No cause, no reason to exist. Frankly the idea of a Tory party led by IDS, Gove, Fox et al fills me with joy. Totally unelectable.

In yours and my view perhaps but we’re never going to vote for them anyway. A sizeable amount of people with right wing views find them very electable. Similarly the opposition is becoming equally polarised. It’s Hobson’s choice for anyone else and with the Right currently in power and dominating the political “mainstream” and holding most of the media behind them they won’t be gone in a hurry.

DHM wrote:

I don't think it's deluded to believe we can keep in place many of the rights gained over the last 20 years. A large part of the argument against the human rights act is that judgments appear to be "imposed" by other countries.

A Brexit would be seen as a mandate by Euro-sceptics to do what they want. There’s a heck of a lot of mileage in “rolling back the excesses of the EU”. If a “leave” vote goes through in June there’s another 4 years for them to do just that.