Re: NHS England misusing my money. : Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:42 am  

BobbyD wrote:

Did I say all? Or are you being wilfully obtuse?

Forgive me if I misquoted you, what you actually said was "All the hold housing estates in the area..." which is quite difficult to understand, I guessed that it meant "old", so "All the old housing estates in the area..." but I could be miles off the mark.

But yes, you did say "all", assuming that "all" wasn't a random word inserted into the sentence as well.

Re: NHS England misusing my money. : Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:24 pm  

It's clarts like you lot slinging mud at each other and stereotyping who prevent any real progress in the debate in this country.

In relation to the original topic - of sorts - I am currently in the US and have been ill over the past week resulting in an emergency hospital visit. I'm yet to see the bill for the hospital visit but I have to say I did get the feeling they were pushing me towards certain treatments because they would have been able to bill me (my insurance) for them. It's not pleasant and I can only imagine what they get away with with for patients who are either unconscious or unable to really understand what choices they are being offered in these cases. Conversely though I would say that I found it quite positive that the doctor who treated me expected me to have a much better understanding of my prior health situation than I did, in terms of prescriptions I've had in the past. I've always felt with an NHS GP that treatment was quite maternal rather than participatory - "don't worry what it is, just trust us and take it".

I found the cost of my antiobiotics to be quite a surprise - $125. Whether this is an inflated private market price because they are branded or something, or the same as what they'd cost in the UK I have no idea.

Re: NHS England misusing my money. : Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:56 pm  

Diavolo Rosso wrote:

I found the cost of my antiobiotics to be quite a surprise - $125. Whether this is an inflated private market price because they are branded or something, or the same as what they'd cost in the UK I have no idea.

Cost of private health insurance (basic cover with claim limits applied) for me is £85 to £97 a month depending on how desperate they are for the business (they quote me unprompted every quarter), for those who maintain that we should be able to opt out of NIS contributions and find our own pension and health cover then bear that in mind, if you're a family of four then where would you find three to four hundred pounds a month for limited health insurance ?

And where will you find the money when unemployed or retired, there's no cradle to grave cover when you have no NHS.



One other thing - I find that when insurance companies get into a market for provisioning services then the cost of those services increases dramatically, which is exactly the opposite of what you'd expect when one large commissioner of services enters any market, usually bulk buying gets you big discounts, not the other way around. Just as a "for example", have you ever taken a car into a car body workshop for some dents to be removed or a respray job and what is the first question they ask you "Is it an insurance job ?" Now why do you think they ask that question ?

Re: NHS England misusing my money. : Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:36 am  

Just for information, have a read of this article on how much it costs to be ill in the USA and how the system is cash driven in a constant upward spiral of increasing costs. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/tim-bradley/cherish-the-nhs_b_7007368.html

Just for information, have a read of this article on how much it costs to be ill in the USA and how the system is cash driven in a constant upward spiral of increasing costs. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/tim-bradley/cherish-the-nhs_b_7007368.html

Re: NHS England misusing my money. : Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:55 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

Cost of private health insurance (basic cover with claim limits applied) for me is £85 to £97 a month depending on how desperate they are for the business (they quote me unprompted every quarter), for those who maintain that we should be able to opt out of NIS contributions and find our own pension and health cover then bear that in mind, if you're a family of four then where would you find three to four hundred pounds a month for limited health insurance ?

And where will you find the money when unemployed or retired, there's no cradle to grave cover when you have no NHS.

Not only that when you get towards retirement cover will cost about 10 times what you said. Not only that it would not necessarily cover big ticket items / emergencies.

Re: NHS England misusing my money. : Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:27 pm  

Dally wrote:

Not only that when you get towards retirement cover will cost about 10 times what you said. Not only that it would not necessarily cover big ticket items / emergencies.

AND - have a read of that article I linked to - it doesn't even cover the total amount of the care that you thought you were covered for, not only are you liable for the first xx% of all costs but if the hospital or doctor finds that the insurers baulk at any element of the treatment they gave you then YOU have to pay for it.

Its one thing to slip through legislation that allows your Health Authority to outsource treatment and care but the next stage is to start speaking of personal insurance to cover care - thats when we need to take out the torches and pitchforks.

Re: NHS England misusing my money. : Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:41 pm  

JerryChicken wrote: Forgive me if I misquoted you, what you actually said was "All the hold housing estates in the area..." which is quite difficult to understand, I guessed that it meant "old", so "All the old housing estates in the area..." but I could be miles off the mark. But yes, you did say "all", assuming that "all" wasn't a random word inserted into the sentence as well. The use of "all" had two conditions, the age and location of the estates, as opposed to the sweeping generalisation of all estates regardless of location. My point still stands, these estates aren't community hubs or whatever term they use anymore, they've become areas to dump those unwilling or unable to help themselves. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/domesday/d ... 00/page/11 Roman Road Housing Estate was built in 3 phases between 1974 and 1977. Phases 1 and 2 were built by Blackburn Council and phase 3 by the Housing Association. The estate was built on imaginative lines with house grouped around open spaces with play facilities.The houses were built to a high specification with full central heating and all modern conveniences. However when people moved in problems soon began to appear.Shopping facilities were few and public transport was inadequate.Many people felt isolated;there were no facilities for older children to 'let off steam' and vandalism began to spoil the attractive appearance. Many of the residents are one parent families who have moved in from other parts of the country and find it hard to cope without help from relatives.

JerryChicken wrote: Forgive me if I misquoted you, what you actually said was "All the hold housing estates in the area..." which is quite difficult to understand, I guessed that it meant "old", so "All the old housing estates in the area..." but I could be miles off the mark. But yes, you did say "all", assuming that "all" wasn't a random word inserted into the sentence as well. The use of "all" had two conditions, the age and location of the estates, as opposed to the sweeping generalisation of all estates regardless of location. My point still stands, these estates aren't community hubs or whatever term they use anymore, they've become areas to dump those unwilling or unable to help themselves. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/domesday/d ... 00/page/11 Roman Road Housing Estate was built in 3 phases between 1974 and 1977. Phases 1 and 2 were built by Blackburn Council and phase 3 by the Housing Association. The estate was built on imaginative lines with house grouped around open spaces with play facilities.The houses were built to a high specification with full central heating and all modern conveniences. However when people moved in problems soon began to appear.Shopping facilities were few and public transport was inadequate.Many people felt isolated;there were no facilities for older children to 'let off steam' and vandalism began to spoil the attractive appearance. Many of the residents are one parent families who have moved in from other parts of the country and find it hard to cope without help from relatives.

Re: NHS England misusing my money. : Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:51 pm  

BobbyD wrote: The use of "all" had two conditions, the age and location of the estates, as opposed to the sweeping generalisation of all estates regardless of location. My point still stands, these estates aren't community hubs or whatever term they use anymore, they've become areas to dump those unwilling or unable to help themselves. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/domesday/d ... 00/page/11 Its a self-fulfilling prophecy, you create a dumping ground for your districts worst tenants and then act surprised when things go downhill from there. You could argue that its estate management that is lacking, that all that is required is for the council or housing association to take a bit of pride in their asset (the estate) and to filter out the ne'er-do-wells and wasters, and I'm sure there are many examples where this happens, in the example you quote there was obviously no thought put into what it would be like to actually live there, shops and school used to be the basic element of any decent housing scheme but unfortunately independent estate shops have been all but eliminated by supermarkets which in turn might not be the easiest to get to without a car or public transport, looking from the outside you'd call it "joined up thinking". The estate that my wife grew up on was a prime example of going from being a brand new family estate of two and three bed houses in the 1960s to the councils dumping ground for druggies and dole-ites in the 1990s, fortunately someone at the council got a grip and they have turned the estate around now, rents on there are in excess of what can be gained on housing benefit so there is a need for an income even if its a minimum wage zero hours job, the place has improved substantially and there is now a waiting list again - it takes a little management from the owners and a few years of undoing all their mistakes but they got there in the end.

BobbyD wrote: The use of "all" had two conditions, the age and location of the estates, as opposed to the sweeping generalisation of all estates regardless of location. My point still stands, these estates aren't community hubs or whatever term they use anymore, they've become areas to dump those unwilling or unable to help themselves. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/domesday/d ... 00/page/11 Its a self-fulfilling prophecy, you create a dumping ground for your districts worst tenants and then act surprised when things go downhill from there. You could argue that its estate management that is lacking, that all that is required is for the council or housing association to take a bit of pride in their asset (the estate) and to filter out the ne'er-do-wells and wasters, and I'm sure there are many examples where this happens, in the example you quote there was obviously no thought put into what it would be like to actually live there, shops and school used to be the basic element of any decent housing scheme but unfortunately independent estate shops have been all but eliminated by supermarkets which in turn might not be the easiest to get to without a car or public transport, looking from the outside you'd call it "joined up thinking". The estate that my wife grew up on was a prime example of going from being a brand new family estate of two and three bed houses in the 1960s to the councils dumping ground for druggies and dole-ites in the 1990s, fortunately someone at the council got a grip and they have turned the estate around now, rents on there are in excess of what can be gained on housing benefit so there is a need for an income even if its a minimum wage zero hours job, the place has improved substantially and there is now a waiting list again - it takes a little management from the owners and a few years of undoing all their mistakes but they got there in the end.

Re: NHS England misusing my money. : Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:43 pm  

BobbyD wrote:

Indeed, a classic Tory in the same mould as someone who voted to privatise the NHS.

And the armed forces, the civilian army AKA the police, the fire service,the civil service, parliament itself.

It's nice to read self confessed classic Tory.

Lacking in humanity, social skills, but full of xenophobia and greed.

You must be proud.

I admire your courage.

Re: NHS England misusing my money. : Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:55 pm  

Leaguefan wrote:

And the armed forces, the civilian army AKA the police, the fire service,the civil service, parliament itself.

It's nice to read self confessed classic Tory.

Lacking in humanity, social skills, but full of xenophobia and greed.

You must be proud.

I admire your courage.

Quite the class warrior aren't you. You lost. Get over it.