Re: General Election 8th June : Wed May 10, 2017 3:35 pm  

Exiled down south wrote:
Now kids stay on 'til they are 18 and have the opportunity to go to uni. Yes there is a fee but you don't pay it back until you earn X. That didn't exist in the 80's.


University education was grant maintained in the 80s. No loans and no fees. Now fees alone are at least 9k a year. Thus university education comes at a cost where it didn't before.

It doesn't come at an immediate cost, its paid back over a lifetime when earning a decent crust. Stats show degree qualified personnel earn higher salaries over a lifetime. Why play it down.
Grants are provided for kids at uni through a means tested process.

Forget Mines, Mills etc let's get the kids into Tech, Engineering, Service industries where unions don't exist thankfully, and give them a meaningful and fulfilling career.

Re: General Election 8th June : Wed May 10, 2017 3:39 pm  

That's the problem - used to be that non-academically minded folk could leave school, knowing that they could walk into a job in the factory/pit/steelworks and have a job for life, promotion pretty much nailed on based on years of service rather than merit and strong union representation.

The world has changed, stop hankering back to the past, we aren't going to return there. The Chinese and Indians have picked up the steel and mines and we have to accept that. Its not Thatchers fault its just the way the world has evolved, they can do it cheaper.

As for unions they are old hat. Militant swines typically led by scousers and jocks.

Re: General Election 8th June : Wed May 10, 2017 5:14 pm  

Exiled down south wrote:

Opportunity for all has never been greater. In the past it was school 'til 16 then work in the local industry. Now kids stay on 'til they are 18 and have the opportunity to go to uni. Yes there is a fee but you don't pay it back until you earn X. That didn't exist in the 80's. In this era you can reinvent yourself at an age. The opportunities are out there it just takes motivation. Unfortunately responses like yours just smell of accepted failure, now where is the state to help me. Forget the excuses and get motivated to succeed. The welfare propping up system is gone thankfully.

Last night I was watching some guy on the box talking about how business in some areas are struggling to find the talent for there vacancies. This wasn't just the SE but included the midlands etc It wasn't just tech/engineering companies either, he mentioned plenty of blue collar work.

The opportunity may be there to go to University but, the prospect of coming out with debts of 50k plus, frightens many people off.
If you come form a decent family, even with reasonable income, the very though of your kids having such debt, before they start work or looking for a house etc is just plain scary, especially if you have 2 or 3 children.
Of course, the debt is theirs and they may never have to pay it off but, its one hell of a way to start your adult life.

Re: General Election 8th June : Wed May 10, 2017 5:29 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

The opportunity may be there to go to University but, the prospect of coming out with debts of 50k plus, frightens many people off.
If you come form a decent family, even with reasonable income, the very though of your kids having such debt, before they start work or looking for a house etc is just plain scary, especially if you have 2 or 3 children.
Of course, the debt is theirs and they may never have to pay it off but, its one hell of a way to start your adult life.

All decided by people who either benefited from a free university education, or who come from backgrounds where money is not even a consideration.

The very definition of pulling up the ladder behind you.

Re: General Election 8th June : Wed May 10, 2017 10:07 pm  

Exiled down south wrote:

The world has changed, stop hankering back to the past, we aren't going to return there. The Chinese and Indians have picked up the steel and mines and we have to accept that. Its not Thatchers fault its just the way the world has evolved, they can do it cheaper.

As for unions they are old hat. Militant swines typically led by scousers and jocks.

Im not hankering back to the past - it's a fact of life that work opportunities for the non-acedemically minded are limited and exploititive.

If we are serious about our young people becoming engineers etc, why the hell are the tories chronically underfunding the schools system, while cutting tax for the wealthiest?

As for Unions being old hat, I'm sure you know what conditions were like before unionisation. If not, go to the mining museum or similar. Absolutely critical in winning a lot of the rights we enjoy today. As automation comes ever more into the workplace, we are going to need to band together or all end up redundant.

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu May 11, 2017 5:21 am  

As for Unions being old hat, I'm sure you know what conditions were like before unionisation. If not, go to the mining museum or similar. Absolutely critical in winning a lot of the rights we enjoy today. As automation comes ever more into the workplace, we are going to need to band together or all end up redundant.

Again hankering to the past. The unions have done a great job for workers rights and working environments but today we are moving to a service based industry where offices are healthy places to work..... Like UKIP there job is done

How can you fight automation and computers? If they are coming they are coming. We've more people in work today than ever. Why do you get so worried and focus on the negatives.

If we are serious about our young people becoming engineers etc, why the hell are the tories chronically underfunding the schools system, while cutting tax for the wealthiest?

Money isn't the answer to everything. Its value for money. More schools are meeting the outstanding or equivalent standards which means more kids are being educated in high quality environments.

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu May 11, 2017 5:36 am  

Every union rep I've met in Australia was a Scot. Hope this helps.

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu May 11, 2017 6:55 am  

The labour manifesto has been leaked. They had the Labour election coordinator on BBC this morning and listening to him was comedy gold. They are completely delusional.

Nationalising many areas including energy, rail.... He wouldn't commit to cheaper fares when pressed repeatedly which is all the commuter really cares about.(surely there has to be a benefit to the punter other than knowing the profits are not going to state owned train companies in Germany or Hong Kong)

Do they not have someone in the team who has the intelligence to realise you need to connect with the 'many and not the few'??

Maybe Corbyns Moral compass points in the right direction but Jesus what a shambles Labour are. It makes the election outcome all the more boring and predictable. Its just about how many seats(and majority) the Tories will get. The good thing is we will have untouchable party in place to take us through Brexit and the 3 years after untouched. Q the lefties.

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu May 11, 2017 7:02 am  

Every union rep I've met in Australia was a Scot. Hope this helps.

You're lucky they are not enhanced by Scousers. Union reps are Militant, opinionated, one eyed, g0gsh1tes with no concern for the future of the companies. I understand representation but not the way they operate. The good thing is they are dyeing out as they offer very little in this day and age. You only have to look at the Union Demi God Scargill living his life out in luxury in a penthouse in London on the back of the miners unions subscriptions. They have no morals, its all about them.

What is it with Jocks that they need to drop in the word 'Scotland' every second paragraph.

Re: General Election 8th June : Thu May 11, 2017 7:07 am  

Interesting Labour manifesto - re-nationalise the trains, increase CT to pay for everything. Typical Labour all the focus is on throwing money at things and things will improve not how can we run things more efficiently. Education is an interesting battleground.

Re-nationalise Royal Mail, re-nationalise utility companies

Increase union powers - are these people on a suicide mission? You can't bite the hand that feeds you!!

How is all this funded - seriously the CT is delusional as is increases taxation on high earners both will yield negative returns

We should scrap the armed forces - Corbyn doesn't want them to go into action!!

The Labour party can't even keep the manifesto secret until the official launch - the party is completely disfunctional