Re: General Election 8th June : Mon May 08, 2017 9:33 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Surely its very naïve to suggests that changes in population will automatically lead to increases in funding - how do you think that will happen? There will always be a lag I would suggest that is the difference between idealism and realism - as you said you have clearly thought it through

Mental health is an issue so is an ageing population which will undoubtedly increase pressure on mental health resources. This comes back to point you seem to want to avoid:

There are finite financial resources available so what do you do, we all agree the NHS either needs more funding, needs to become more efficient or reduce the abuse it gets from its clients. So how do you fund it, what level do you fund it to and what services take priority?

As you have so clearly thought it through this should be an easy question for you to answer

You talk about a "lag" in the system and how it can take time to catch up, which I agree with.
However, what you fail to comprehend is WHY, there have been over 6600 mental health nurses cut since 2010.
During this period there has been an increase in population and an increased need for the service and yet THIS GOVERNMENT HAS SLASHED THE SERVICE.

Of course there isn't a bottomless pot of cash and hard decisions have to be made but, when you are talking about people taking their own lives (or attempting to) you would have thought that this would be a priority.
Mind you, you probably think that they "deserve" their outcomes and clearly its nothing to do with you and it's "their own fault".

Sorry pal but, you and I dont share the same values.

Human beings without compassion for their fellow man are not worthy of the title.

Maybe you should come down from your ivory tower and see what happens in the real less privileged world.

Re: General Election 8th June : Tue May 09, 2017 6:57 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

You talk about a "lag" in the system and how it can take time to catch up, which I agree with.
However, what you fail to comprehend is WHY, there have been over 6600 mental health nurses cut since 2010.
During this period there has been an increase in population and an increased need for the service and yet THIS GOVERNMENT HAS SLASHED THE SERVICE.

Of course there isn't a bottomless pot of cash and hard decisions have to be made but, when you are talking about people taking their own lives (or attempting to) you would have thought that this would be a priority.
Mind you, you probably think that they "deserve" their outcomes and clearly its nothing to do with you and it's "their own fault".

Sorry pal but, you and I dont share the same values.

Human beings without compassion for their fellow man are not worthy of the title.

Maybe you should come down from your ivory tower and see what happens in the real less privileged world.

In 2010 the coalition inherited a massive financial hole and some funding cuts had to be made. Perhaps because the issues with mental health are not as tangible i.e. if you are having a heart attack it pretty obvious and the need for treatment immediate. Mental health issues are more subtle so perhaps they don't shout as loud?

So I can understand why mental health would be a poor relation to other clinical areas. We come back the point of how do fund NHS properly whereby the service they offer is representative of the demands put on it - what are its priorities?

I was myself very fortunate to received cognitive therapy for a problem I had been carrying for nearly 35 years so I am in awe of what mental health professionals can deliver. How a buzz in each hand can rearrange the electrical function of the most complex organism known to man is beyond my comprehension.

I would consider myself quite a compassionate individual but I am not blinded to the avoidable abuses that contribute to the pressures exerted on the NHS e.g. missed appointments, vists to A&E that are not appropriate etc.

We can agree I hope the current government is putting more funding into the NHS than any government before it.

Re: General Election 8th June : Tue May 09, 2017 7:54 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

In 2010 the coalition inherited a massive financial hole and some funding cuts had to be made. Perhaps because the issues with mental health are not as tangible i.e. if you are having a heart attack it pretty obvious and the need for treatment immediate. Mental health issues are more subtle so perhaps they don't shout as loud?

So I can understand why mental health would be a poor relation to other clinical areas. We come back the point of how do fund NHS properly whereby the service they offer is representative of the demands put on it - what are its priorities?

I was myself very fortunate to received cognitive therapy for a problem I had been carrying for nearly 35 years so I am in awe of what mental health professionals can deliver. How a buzz in each hand can rearrange the electrical function of the most complex organism known to man is beyond my comprehension.

I would consider myself quite a compassionate individual but I am not blinded to the avoidable abuses that contribute to the pressures exerted on the NHS e.g. missed appointments, vists to A&E that are not appropriate etc.

We can agree I hope the current government is putting more funding into the NHS than any government before it.

Was your "care" on the NHS or through your privileged private health care ?
Also, you say that we have to agree that this government has put more funding into the NHS than any government before it ?
In actual cash, yest they have but, in real terms (allowing for inflation), no it hasn't and as a proportion of our GDP, its actually reducing.
Dont be fooled by promises of future spending, they don't always happen and with Mrs May calling an early election, all of those promises of spending by 2020 will be wiped clean and they will come up with some more empty promises.
The 10,000 "extra" mental health nurses will be an interesting test, although, having already butchered the service it shouldn't be hard to improve it, even if it's only a modest improvement.

We keep hearing about our "strong and stable" economy and how it's essential to pay for public services but, the truth is that our economy is fragile and the move out of the EU makes it massively unstable but, I know that you'll be alright so, don't worry about it, you can leave that to the poor and needy, after all, they have probably brought it upon themselves

Re: General Election 8th June : Tue May 09, 2017 8:24 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

The 10,000 "extra" mental health nurses will be an interesting test, although, having already butchered the service it shouldn't be hard to improve it, even if it's only a modest improvement.

Let's not forget that they've removed over 6,000 MH nurses - so a big chunk of their 'extra' 10,000 will only be replacing what we've already lost; and there has been a quiet admission that the 10,000 will be paid for by existing NHS funding - so no new money.

Re: General Election 8th June : Tue May 09, 2017 9:57 am  

bren2k wrote:

Let's not forget that they've removed over 6,000 MH nurses - so a big chunk of their 'extra' 10,000 will only be replacing what we've already lost; and there has been a quiet admission that the 10,000 will be paid for by existing NHS funding - so no new money.

I mentioned this to our "friend" in an earlier post but, "he" has the opinion that those most in need are in that position because they drink and smoke and "he" probably thinks hat the increase in people using food banks are just greedy people wanting seconds.

The smoke and mirrors being used by the May government has been very effective and with Corbyn such a lame duck, she will increase her majority and squeeze the live (in some cases literally) out of some of those most in need.

For some of the fat cats in our society, the poor and needy are just a drain on resources and they couldn't give a toss about anyone but themselves.
A philosophy straight out of Thatcher's little blue book.

Re: General Election 8th June : Tue May 09, 2017 11:24 am  

Let's not forget that they've removed over 6,000 MH nurses - so a big chunk of their 'extra' 10,000 will only be replacing what we've already lost; and there has been a quiet admission that the 10,000 will be paid for by existing NHS funding - so no new money.

That's not true. The Health Sec on Marr on Sunday said there will be additional money made available above the £6.5 Billion set aside yearly for the NHS.

Re: General Election 8th June : Tue May 09, 2017 11:49 am  

My care was private but I assume the doctor also practises and was trained within the NHS.

Re: General Election 8th June : Tue May 09, 2017 5:44 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

My care was private but I assume the doctor also practises and was trained within the NHS.

As long as you are ok, that is all that matters.

Re: General Election 8th June : Tue May 09, 2017 7:31 pm  

Exiled down south wrote: That's not true. The Health Sec on Marr on Sunday said there will be additional money made available above the £6.5 Billion set aside yearly for the NHS. We shall see.

Exiled down south wrote: That's not true. The Health Sec on Marr on Sunday said there will be additional money made available above the £6.5 Billion set aside yearly for the NHS. We shall see.

Re: General Election 8th June : Tue May 09, 2017 7:58 pm  

bren2k wrote: We shall see. Amazing.. Labour have to have every single policy costed to the penny or they are vilified as irresponsible with the economy Tories announce a policy with no costing after nearly doubling the national debt and the vagueness is perfectly acceptable!

bren2k wrote: We shall see. Amazing.. Labour have to have every single policy costed to the penny or they are vilified as irresponsible with the economy Tories announce a policy with no costing after nearly doubling the national debt and the vagueness is perfectly acceptable!