Re: General Election 8th June : Sun May 07, 2017 7:15 am  

So under labour we didn't have domestic violence? What did Labour do to deal with the men/women who actually caused it - perhaps they had dealt with the root cause the situation wouldn't be so bad, so goes for drug addiction Labour did nothing about sorting out the volumes of drugs entering this country.

What did Labour do about encouraging the young to work and providing employers with incentives to employ them, remind us what the level of unemployment was under Labour?

The population has increased significantly in the last 7 years primarily due to being a member of the EU - how many of the issues you quote have been worsened because of the numbers of immigrants flooding here from differing cultures.

Re: General Election 8th June : Sun May 07, 2017 11:48 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

So under labour we didn't have domestic violence? What did Labour do to deal with the men/women who actually caused it - perhaps they had dealt with the root cause the situation wouldn't be so bad, so goes for drug addiction Labour did nothing about sorting out the volumes of drugs entering this country.

What did Labour do about encouraging the young to work and providing employers with incentives to employ them, remind us what the level of unemployment was under Labour?

The population has increased significantly in the last 7 years primarily due to being a member of the EU - how many of the issues you quote have been worsened because of the numbers of immigrants flooding here from differing cultures.

There was at least a reasonable level of support available for vulnerable women under Labour. Now anyone who is not in a current position to contribute economically is treated like a parasite.

Labours New Deal was successful and let's not forget in 1997, large swathes of the country were still recovering from Thatchers hatchet job, which turned many communities into drug ridden, poverty stricken armpits in the first place!

As for immigration, those from EU are net contributors - yet despite their input, the public get nothing back from a greedy government, hell bent on pursuing the trickle down idealogy that results in boom/bust and doesn't work for the young or working classes.

Non EU immigration is a different matter though, but nothing to do with EU membership. The Tories have seen more immigration in the last 7 years than Labour did in 13.

Re: General Election 8th June : Sun May 07, 2017 12:53 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

So under labour we didn't have domestic violence? What did Labour do to deal with the men/women who actually caused it - perhaps they had dealt with the root cause the situation wouldn't be so bad, so goes for drug addiction Labour did nothing about sorting out the volumes of drugs entering this country.

What did Labour do about encouraging the young to work and providing employers with incentives to employ them, remind us what the level of unemployment was under Labour?

The population has increased significantly in the last 7 years primarily due to being a member of the EU - how many of the issues you quote have been worsened because of the numbers of immigrants flooding here from differing cultures.

I assume that you are being deliberately provocative, with your party political nonsense.
Of course there were issues previously and there will still be problems in the future, regardless of who wins the election.
However, the cuts that we've had over the last 7 years have hammered social services and had a massive impact on help for all types of "at risk" groups

Despite Mrs Mays commitment on mental health over the weekend, there is little help for anyone suffering with acute anxiety or depression and you just about have to be hospitalised before any treatment is given.
The root causes of problems just aren't deemed important enough to warrant treatment.

Blaming immigrants is just shocking, Nigel, you need to give your head a shake.
First of all, you need to look closer at the swingeing cuts in social care which we can all expect more of, over the next 5 years.
Of course, this isn't an issue and you can afford to go private

Re: General Election 8th June : Sun May 07, 2017 3:22 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

I assume that you are being deliberately provocative, with your party political nonsense.
Of course there were issues previously and there will still be problems in the future, regardless of who wins the election.
However, the cuts that we've had over the last 7 years have hammered social services and had a massive impact on help for all types of "at risk" groups

Despite Mrs Mays commitment on mental health over the weekend, there is little help for anyone suffering with acute anxiety or depression and you just about have to be hospitalised before any treatment is given.
The root causes of problems just aren't deemed important enough to warrant treatment.

Blaming immigrants is just shocking, Nigel, you need to give your head a shake.
First of all, you need to look closer at the swingeing cuts in social care which we can all expect more of, over the next 5 years.
Of course, this isn't an issue and you can afford to go private

Yes I can afford to go private because I consider my health important enough to makes sacrifices in other areas to pay for cover - maybe I should waste my money on beer and cigarettes an expect the state to sort me out?

Nobody is blaming immigrants so you need to get off your high horse. What I am trying to point out is increasing pressure put on those services when the population is increasing at c500k a year.

What is your solution where does all the extra finance come from so that everyone who has depression/anxiety gets state of the art treatment immediately on tap?

Re: General Election 8th June : Sun May 07, 2017 6:28 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Yes I can afford to go private because I consider my health important enough to makes sacrifices in other areas to pay for cover - maybe I should waste my money on beer and cigarettes an expect the state to sort me out?

Nobody is blaming immigrants so you need to get off your high horse. What I am trying to point out is increasing pressure put on those services when the population is increasing at c500k a year.

What is your solution where does all the extra finance come from so that everyone who has depression/anxiety gets state of the art treatment immediately on tap?

Ahh, well there we go. I'm alright Jack - screw everyone else. Tory voters are so predictable.

No one is calling for state of the art treatment for every minor ailment to be paid for by a magic money tree. But as a society we have an imperfect system and we can afford a bit more to help those who struggle within it.

Re: General Election 8th June : Sun May 07, 2017 6:38 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote: Yes I can afford to go private because I consider my health important enough to makes sacrifices in other areas to pay for cover - maybe I should waste my money on beer and cigarettes an expect the state to sort me out? Nobody is blaming immigrants so you need to get off your high horse. What I am trying to point out is increasing pressure put on those services when the population is increasing at c500k a year. What is your solution where does all the extra finance come from so that everyone who has depression/anxiety gets state of the art treatment immediately on tap? Just climbing back on my high horse. You said "how many of the issues you quote have been worsened because of the numbers of immigrants flooding here from differing cultures" I suppose that you were just asking out of curiosity ?? Also you quote 500k immigration, without including those leaving the UK which halves your figure. The Tory government keep on telling us that there are more people in work than ever before and surely they will all be paying tax and NI and vat etc and they also said that immigrants make a net contribution to the UK economy. www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/05 ... -ucl-study So, please, stop trotting out the Tory/Daily Mail propaganda by blaming immigrants for all of the country's woes, it's tiresome. By the way, congratulations on your private health insurance. It hasn't stopped you from being unable to see past the lies and deceit of the current government and it's friends in the media and really, you shouldn't judge people in need and tar them all with your blinkered right wing views. Of course, some may drink and smoke and contribute to their own situations but, many do not and if you could actually be bothered to see what is taking place, you MAY change your views, although, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Sal Paradise wrote: Yes I can afford to go private because I consider my health important enough to makes sacrifices in other areas to pay for cover - maybe I should waste my money on beer and cigarettes an expect the state to sort me out? Nobody is blaming immigrants so you need to get off your high horse. What I am trying to point out is increasing pressure put on those services when the population is increasing at c500k a year. What is your solution where does all the extra finance come from so that everyone who has depression/anxiety gets state of the art treatment immediately on tap? Just climbing back on my high horse. You said "how many of the issues you quote have been worsened because of the numbers of immigrants flooding here from differing cultures" I suppose that you were just asking out of curiosity ?? Also you quote 500k immigration, without including those leaving the UK which halves your figure. The Tory government keep on telling us that there are more people in work than ever before and surely they will all be paying tax and NI and vat etc and they also said that immigrants make a net contribution to the UK economy. www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/05 ... -ucl-study So, please, stop trotting out the Tory/Daily Mail propaganda by blaming immigrants for all of the country's woes, it's tiresome. By the way, congratulations on your private health insurance. It hasn't stopped you from being unable to see past the lies and deceit of the current government and it's friends in the media and really, you shouldn't judge people in need and tar them all with your blinkered right wing views. Of course, some may drink and smoke and contribute to their own situations but, many do not and if you could actually be bothered to see what is taking place, you MAY change your views, although, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Re: General Election 8th June : Sun May 07, 2017 10:59 pm  

It's a tad hypocritical to complain about people contracting disease through drinking and smoking when the consumption of processed foods and animal proteins over a medium to long period of time has been found to be as damaging as smoking in terms of causing stroke, heart disease, high blood pressure and dietitians, but I bet most people don't consider that whist chelpimg about smokers and drinkers during their Sunday roast.
Like all public services, the NHS is being asked to provide a higher standard of service with less resources. Of course the standard of the service will drop, to blame immigrants is nonsense .

Re: General Election 8th June : Mon May 08, 2017 8:08 am  

wrencat1873 wrote: Just climbing back on my high horse. You said "how many of the issues you quote have been worsened because of the numbers of immigrants flooding here from differing cultures" I suppose that you were just asking out of curiosity ?? Also you quote 500k immigration, without including those leaving the UK which halves your figure. The Tory government keep on telling us that there are more people in work than ever before and surely they will all be paying tax and NI and vat etc and they also said that immigrants make a net contribution to the UK economy. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... -ucl-study So, please, stop trotting out the Tory/Daily Mail propaganda by blaming immigrants for all of the country's woes, it's tiresome. By the way, congratulations on your private health insurance. It hasn't stopped you from being unable to see past the lies and deceit of the current government and it's friends in the media and really, you shouldn't judge people in need and tar them all with your blinkered right wing views. Of course, some may drink and smoke and contribute to their own situations but, many do not and if you could actually be bothered to see what is taking place, you MAY change your views, although, I wouldn't hold my breath. Just answer the question - would you see an increase in the population helping or hindering the causes you feel so passionate about? I don't see the Tories to be any better than Labour - all politicians are the same to me - next to useless. The idea that things were so much better under Labour is a mute point. They pumped huge amounts of money into the NHS of which a big chunk simply went into increased remunerations at all levels and increased cost of drugs >50% went into improving clinical excellence. During Labour's time a host of trusts ran at a deficit. Would you accept the Tories are pumping more money into the NHS than any previous government? The point is where do you stop? the NHS could eat the whole domestic product of this country and it still wouldn't be enough so there will always be compromises. So who does without so your patients with mental problems get treated - maybe we should abandon very expensive cancer treatment which prolongs life for very short periods of time?

wrencat1873 wrote: Just climbing back on my high horse. You said "how many of the issues you quote have been worsened because of the numbers of immigrants flooding here from differing cultures" I suppose that you were just asking out of curiosity ?? Also you quote 500k immigration, without including those leaving the UK which halves your figure. The Tory government keep on telling us that there are more people in work than ever before and surely they will all be paying tax and NI and vat etc and they also said that immigrants make a net contribution to the UK economy. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... -ucl-study So, please, stop trotting out the Tory/Daily Mail propaganda by blaming immigrants for all of the country's woes, it's tiresome. By the way, congratulations on your private health insurance. It hasn't stopped you from being unable to see past the lies and deceit of the current government and it's friends in the media and really, you shouldn't judge people in need and tar them all with your blinkered right wing views. Of course, some may drink and smoke and contribute to their own situations but, many do not and if you could actually be bothered to see what is taking place, you MAY change your views, although, I wouldn't hold my breath. Just answer the question - would you see an increase in the population helping or hindering the causes you feel so passionate about? I don't see the Tories to be any better than Labour - all politicians are the same to me - next to useless. The idea that things were so much better under Labour is a mute point. They pumped huge amounts of money into the NHS of which a big chunk simply went into increased remunerations at all levels and increased cost of drugs >50% went into improving clinical excellence. During Labour's time a host of trusts ran at a deficit. Would you accept the Tories are pumping more money into the NHS than any previous government? The point is where do you stop? the NHS could eat the whole domestic product of this country and it still wouldn't be enough so there will always be compromises. So who does without so your patients with mental problems get treated - maybe we should abandon very expensive cancer treatment which prolongs life for very short periods of time?

Re: General Election 8th June : Mon May 08, 2017 8:26 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Just answer the question - would you see an increase in the population helping or hindering the causes you feel so passionate about?

I don't see the Tories to be any better than Labour - all politicians are the same to me - next to useless. The idea that things were so much better under Labour is a mute point. They pumped huge amounts of money into the NHS of which a big chunk simply went into increased remunerations at all levels and increased cost of drugs >50% went into improving clinical excellence. During Labour's time a host of trusts ran at a deficit.

Would you accept the Tories are pumping more money into the NHS than any previous government?

The point is where do you stop? the NHS could eat the whole domestic product of this country and it still wouldn't be enough so there will always be compromises. So who does without so your patients with mental problems get treated - maybe we should abandon very expensive cancer treatment which prolongs life for very short periods of time?

To answer your question NO.
Changes in population numbers should make zero difference on the provision of care for the those in need.
This assumes that we maintain levels of service based on said population.
You may have seen on the news over the weekend that the Tories are planning a further 10,000 mental health staff by 2020, which is good news.
However, you will also have seen that these numbers have reduced by 6600 since 2010.

Do you think that the 6600 fewer mental health staff will have had a positive or negative effect on the treatment of mental health over the 7 years that our "fair society" party have been in power.

Come back when you have thought is through properly

Re: General Election 8th June : Mon May 08, 2017 9:09 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

To answer your question NO.
Changes in population numbers should make zero difference on the provision of care for the those in need.
This assumes that we maintain levels of service based on said population.
You may have seen on the news over the weekend that the Tories are planning a further 10,000 mental health staff by 2020, which is good news.
However, you will also have seen that these numbers have reduced by 6600 since 2010.

Do you think that the 6600 fewer mental health staff will have had a positive or negative effect on the treatment of mental health over the 7 years that our "fair society" party have been in power.

Come back when you have thought is through properly

Surely its very naïve to suggests that changes in population will automatically lead to increases in funding - how do you think that will happen? There will always be a lag I would suggest that is the difference between idealism and realism - as you said you have clearly thought it through

Mental health is an issue so is an ageing population which will undoubtedly increase pressure on mental health resources. This comes back to point you seem to want to avoid:

There are finite financial resources available so what do you do, we all agree the NHS either needs more funding, needs to become more efficient or reduce the abuse it gets from its clients. So how do you fund it, what level do you fund it to and what services take priority?

As you have so clearly thought it through this should be an easy question for you to answer