Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:22 pm  

I never for one moment thought you meant me. I was just raising a valid point about the new world of sensitivity post Brexit.

Every one is a racist that voted out and everyone who disagrees is a bully! then there is populism which leads to both racism and bullying

The worlds gone soft

Anyway answer the Tory question you soft sod

Re: Brexit Anyone? : Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:36 pm  

Dally wrote: Aside from the fact that mine was not a string of remarks: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... sions.html You're a troll, and a predictable one.

Dally wrote: Aside from the fact that mine was not a string of remarks: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... sions.html You're a troll, and a predictable one.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:05 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote: Wow. PLease accept my full and sincere apologies for daring to have a different opinion to your own, i am not worthy, I am not worthy Good grief. You can have any opinion you like, just stop whinging. I absolutely love your dismissive nature, it's brilliant, especially to my comment about the employees of your "wealthy" friends being worse off and how that isn't a problem. According to the leave campaign we were going to all be better off post Brexit and there was going to be an extra £350 million a week for the NHS and you sound like you bought into the dream and I'm the snowflake Hahaha I hardly think supply managers and section managers are classed as wealthy. But yes, I speak occasionally with the wealthy Board members (actually, their PAs more often than not), what of it? It's called 'my work role'. You have zero idea whether anyone will be worse off after we leave, or to what degree. You're clearly in the 'fingers crossed it will all fail' brigade. You rightly say that currency levels fluctuate and of course they do, we used to get $4 to the £ and not the current $1.25 ??, so the UK must be doing really well then ? $4?? Not since 1945. (after which the USA shafted us royally) Meanwhile the rate has (marginally) topped $2 only 2 or 3 times in 35 years, averaged around $1.6 over the same period and was much lower in 1985. You still cant give any indication of the up side to Brexit which puts you in the "fingers crossed" brigade. Removing ourselves from the shackles of an unelected and unremovable cartel desperate to enforce 'ever closer union' and creep towards an 'EU nation-state' regardless of their constant failures and the enormous economic differences across EU nations. Removing ourselves from ridiculous rules such as 'Freedom of Movement' which is a feckin idiotic idea for the same reason. Remove ourselves from the shackles of laborious and largely unsuccessful EU trade negotiations. Remove ourselves from the EU Customs Union, which erects tariff walls around all members and removes their right to make individual deals. Remove ourselves from the Structural and Cohesion Fund, which the European Court of Auditors has refused to sign off for 20 YEARS. Remove ourselves from the Common Agricultural and Fisheries Policies, which resulted in massive waste of agricultural products and millions of tonnes of dead fish being dumped back in the sea. Remove ourselves from the failed Dublin Regulation, which is largely ignored by countries not wishing to burden themselves. Remove ourselves from a dysfunctional institution that has handled the Eurozone crisis terribly - resulting in enormous national debt across member states and huge levels of unemployment - handled the refugee crisis just as terribly, the Balkan conflicts worse still, squabbles constantly over lawmaking, can't decide on trade deals and in general destroys national sovereignty whilst demanding their courts take precedence over ours in the event of a dispute. And yes, stop handing over such huge sums of cash to prop up Eastern and Southern Europe. Remove ourselves from all of that and give ourselves the freedom to manage our own affairs. As for the weak withering and dying, what a great philosophy you have. Maybe you are advocating a return to the jungle instead trying to propagate a civilised society. Erm...that's kinda how business works. If your company is poorly led, poorly managed or even poorly conceived, it will wither and die (unless you're a big bank of course). At the risk of repeating myself, innovative and strong companies adapt, change, find new markets, new suppliers, new opportunities. This has been true of every recession and if our economy dips, the same may be true again. Listening to different opinions will allow you to learn something. Remember, a blind optimist (or Brexitier) is still blind And a crying snowflake Remoaner is still crying.

wrencat1873 wrote: Wow. PLease accept my full and sincere apologies for daring to have a different opinion to your own, i am not worthy, I am not worthy Good grief. You can have any opinion you like, just stop whinging. I absolutely love your dismissive nature, it's brilliant, especially to my comment about the employees of your "wealthy" friends being worse off and how that isn't a problem. According to the leave campaign we were going to all be better off post Brexit and there was going to be an extra £350 million a week for the NHS and you sound like you bought into the dream and I'm the snowflake Hahaha I hardly think supply managers and section managers are classed as wealthy. But yes, I speak occasionally with the wealthy Board members (actually, their PAs more often than not), what of it? It's called 'my work role'. You have zero idea whether anyone will be worse off after we leave, or to what degree. You're clearly in the 'fingers crossed it will all fail' brigade. You rightly say that currency levels fluctuate and of course they do, we used to get $4 to the £ and not the current $1.25 ??, so the UK must be doing really well then ? $4?? Not since 1945. (after which the USA shafted us royally) Meanwhile the rate has (marginally) topped $2 only 2 or 3 times in 35 years, averaged around $1.6 over the same period and was much lower in 1985. You still cant give any indication of the up side to Brexit which puts you in the "fingers crossed" brigade. Removing ourselves from the shackles of an unelected and unremovable cartel desperate to enforce 'ever closer union' and creep towards an 'EU nation-state' regardless of their constant failures and the enormous economic differences across EU nations. Removing ourselves from ridiculous rules such as 'Freedom of Movement' which is a feckin idiotic idea for the same reason. Remove ourselves from the shackles of laborious and largely unsuccessful EU trade negotiations. Remove ourselves from the EU Customs Union, which erects tariff walls around all members and removes their right to make individual deals. Remove ourselves from the Structural and Cohesion Fund, which the European Court of Auditors has refused to sign off for 20 YEARS. Remove ourselves from the Common Agricultural and Fisheries Policies, which resulted in massive waste of agricultural products and millions of tonnes of dead fish being dumped back in the sea. Remove ourselves from the failed Dublin Regulation, which is largely ignored by countries not wishing to burden themselves. Remove ourselves from a dysfunctional institution that has handled the Eurozone crisis terribly - resulting in enormous national debt across member states and huge levels of unemployment - handled the refugee crisis just as terribly, the Balkan conflicts worse still, squabbles constantly over lawmaking, can't decide on trade deals and in general destroys national sovereignty whilst demanding their courts take precedence over ours in the event of a dispute. And yes, stop handing over such huge sums of cash to prop up Eastern and Southern Europe. Remove ourselves from all of that and give ourselves the freedom to manage our own affairs. As for the weak withering and dying, what a great philosophy you have. Maybe you are advocating a return to the jungle instead trying to propagate a civilised society. Erm...that's kinda how business works. If your company is poorly led, poorly managed or even poorly conceived, it will wither and die (unless you're a big bank of course). At the risk of repeating myself, innovative and strong companies adapt, change, find new markets, new suppliers, new opportunities. This has been true of every recession and if our economy dips, the same may be true again. Listening to different opinions will allow you to learn something. Remember, a blind optimist (or Brexitier) is still blind And a crying snowflake Remoaner is still crying.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:37 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

It's largely irrelevant what Labour may have done as they are not in power (and are unlikely to be in charge for many, many years).
The very fact that Mrs May spouts on about a fair society and looking after the less well off and then slashes benefits for those who, for whatever reason, can not work is just utter hypocrisy.

Add to that, the "strong economy" that we keep being told about and then just to bring this back on topic, the cost of Brexit, which they are trying to accumulate some kind of war chest.

At the risk of being accused of negativity (again), we may have to find 10's of billions to exit the EU club and of course someone has to pay.

Should we tax the better off members of society or, take of the less well off, many of whom are struggling to get by already.

Fair society my @rse, the Tories are loving every minute of cutting the welfare state and Corbyn is fecking impotent and cannot and will not do anything about it.

And just for the bullies on here, this is happening now. It's not a maybe of could be, the welfare cuts are real and whilst some may be justified, I'm just happy to be one of the better off people who would be "happy" to pay more tax.

They do tax the better off we pay 40% tax - we will pay more in VAT as it is likely our discretional spend will be much higher too.

There are people who are getting 20k yes 20k in benefits to get that you have earn approx. £30k that simply cannot be right but I suppose that is what you mean by a fairer society a few working hard to support a lot who just can't be bothered!!

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:23 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

They do tax the better off we pay 40% tax - we will pay more in VAT as it is likely our discretional spend will be much higher too.

There are people who are getting 20k yes 20k in benefits to get that you have earn approx. £30k that simply cannot be right but I suppose that is what you mean by a fairer society a few working hard to support a lot who just can't be bothered!!

I agree with the need to do something with regards to the claimants getting such astronomical figures, which is quite ridiculous.
However, what I dont agree with is halving the benefits for those right at the bottom of the scale, who, in some cases, can barely afford to feed themselves.

If Thatcher hadnt sold off so much of the social housing stock, perhaps there would have been somewhere to house many of the claiments, without needing to dole out such huge amounts of housing benefit but, at least it got her another 4/5 years in office

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:35 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

I agree with the need to do something with regards to the claimants getting such astronomical figures, which is quite ridiculous.
However, what I dont agree with is halving the benefits for those right at the bottom of the scale, who, in some cases, can barely afford to feed themselves.

If Thatcher hadnt sold off so much of the social housing stock, perhaps there would have been somewhere to house many of the claiments, without needing to dole out such huge amounts of housing benefit but, at least it got her another 4/5 years in office

Blaming Thatcher again, we've had years of Labour since, just think, if Tony Blair hadn't invaded Iraq we'd have enough money to build more houses, what about PFI finance? You can blame successive governments, regardless of "colour" (and I don't mean skin colour), until we face facts we can't move on. But that won't matter once the US and Noth Korea start blowing us all up!

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:48 am  

Cronus wrote: Good grief. You can have any opinion you like, just stop whinging. Hahaha I hardly think supply managers and section managers are classed as wealthy. But yes, I speak occasionally with the wealthy Board members (actually, their PAs more often than not), what of it? It's called 'my work role'. You have zero idea whether anyone will be worse off after we leave, or to what degree. You're clearly in the 'fingers crossed it will all fail' brigade. $4?? Not since 1945. (after which the USA shafted us royally) Meanwhile the rate has (marginally) topped $2 only 2 or 3 times in 35 years, averaged around $1.6 over the same period and was much lower in 1985. Removing ourselves from the shackles of an unelected and unremovable cartel desperate to enforce 'ever closer union' and creep towards an 'EU nation-state' regardless of their constant failures and the enormous economic differences across EU nations. Removing ourselves from ridiculous rules such as 'Freedom of Movement' which is a feckin idiotic idea for the same reason. Remove ourselves from the shackles of laborious and largely unsuccessful EU trade negotiations. Remove ourselves from the EU Customs Union, which erects tariff walls around all members and removes their right to make individual deals. Remove ourselves from the Structural and Cohesion Fund, which the European Court of Auditors has refused to sign off for 20 YEARS. Remove ourselves from the Common Agricultural and Fisheries Policies, which resulted in massive waste of agricultural products and millions of tonnes of dead fish being dumped back in the sea. Remove ourselves from the failed Dublin Regulation, which is largely ignored by countries not wishing to burden themselves. Remove ourselves from a dysfunctional institution that has handled the Eurozone crisis terribly - resulting in enormous national debt across member states and huge levels of unemployment - handled the refugee crisis just as terribly, the Balkan conflicts worse still, squabbles constantly over lawmaking, can't decide on trade deals and in general destroys national sovereignty whilst demanding their courts take precedence over ours in the event of a dispute. And yes, stop handing over such huge sums of cash to prop up Eastern and Southern Europe. Remove ourselves from all of that and give ourselves the freedom to manage our own affairs. Erm...that's kinda how business works. If your company is poorly led, poorly managed or even poorly conceived, it will wither and die (unless you're a big bank of course). At the risk of repeating myself, innovative and strong companies adapt, change, find new markets, new suppliers, new opportunities. This has been true of every recession and if our economy dips, the same may be true again. And a crying snowflake Remoaner is still crying. Thanks for giving me permission to post, very noble of you and very humbling for me, thank you. We are in agreement on some of the aspects of the EU that are not working very well. Where we are poles apart is the perceived outcome, post Brexit. The "removing of shackles" that you refer to is also the removing of the "glue" that has allowed us to trade very successfully with the EU over the past 40 years and although this may allow us to trade with other parts of the world, what do you think will happen to trade with our largest and geographically closest market. Under what conditions would the EU allow us to source product form Asia/China etc with potentially improved tariff rates and then supply goods into the EU, when their member nations dont have the same , theoretical advantage. There is no way in the world that IF, the UK can agree preferential trade deals with certain nations, that we would then be allowed to be some kind of cut cost gateway outlet into the EU, that simply cant happen. I totally agree with your comments on free movement and this issue needs addressing whether the UK was part of the EU or not, it clearly no longer works. Although, we have now sacrificed our own freedom to move around the EU, which is an own goal. Again, some of the EU policies on agriculture and fishing certainly havent worked to the UK's benefit so there is possible improvement there. However, the risk to our much coveted financial sector is absolutely huge and as probably the largest part of our "invisible" exports this moving across to the EU would take funds from the exchequours purse at a rate not seen in the last 50/60 years and whilst you are clearly right about companies adapting and the strong surviving, the numbers employed in manufacturing, notwithstanding the improvements in mechanisation, are pitiful. Must get back to the freezer, I can feel myself melting !

Cronus wrote: Good grief. You can have any opinion you like, just stop whinging. Hahaha I hardly think supply managers and section managers are classed as wealthy. But yes, I speak occasionally with the wealthy Board members (actually, their PAs more often than not), what of it? It's called 'my work role'. You have zero idea whether anyone will be worse off after we leave, or to what degree. You're clearly in the 'fingers crossed it will all fail' brigade. $4?? Not since 1945. (after which the USA shafted us royally) Meanwhile the rate has (marginally) topped $2 only 2 or 3 times in 35 years, averaged around $1.6 over the same period and was much lower in 1985. Removing ourselves from the shackles of an unelected and unremovable cartel desperate to enforce 'ever closer union' and creep towards an 'EU nation-state' regardless of their constant failures and the enormous economic differences across EU nations. Removing ourselves from ridiculous rules such as 'Freedom of Movement' which is a feckin idiotic idea for the same reason. Remove ourselves from the shackles of laborious and largely unsuccessful EU trade negotiations. Remove ourselves from the EU Customs Union, which erects tariff walls around all members and removes their right to make individual deals. Remove ourselves from the Structural and Cohesion Fund, which the European Court of Auditors has refused to sign off for 20 YEARS. Remove ourselves from the Common Agricultural and Fisheries Policies, which resulted in massive waste of agricultural products and millions of tonnes of dead fish being dumped back in the sea. Remove ourselves from the failed Dublin Regulation, which is largely ignored by countries not wishing to burden themselves. Remove ourselves from a dysfunctional institution that has handled the Eurozone crisis terribly - resulting in enormous national debt across member states and huge levels of unemployment - handled the refugee crisis just as terribly, the Balkan conflicts worse still, squabbles constantly over lawmaking, can't decide on trade deals and in general destroys national sovereignty whilst demanding their courts take precedence over ours in the event of a dispute. And yes, stop handing over such huge sums of cash to prop up Eastern and Southern Europe. Remove ourselves from all of that and give ourselves the freedom to manage our own affairs. Erm...that's kinda how business works. If your company is poorly led, poorly managed or even poorly conceived, it will wither and die (unless you're a big bank of course). At the risk of repeating myself, innovative and strong companies adapt, change, find new markets, new suppliers, new opportunities. This has been true of every recession and if our economy dips, the same may be true again. And a crying snowflake Remoaner is still crying. Thanks for giving me permission to post, very noble of you and very humbling for me, thank you. We are in agreement on some of the aspects of the EU that are not working very well. Where we are poles apart is the perceived outcome, post Brexit. The "removing of shackles" that you refer to is also the removing of the "glue" that has allowed us to trade very successfully with the EU over the past 40 years and although this may allow us to trade with other parts of the world, what do you think will happen to trade with our largest and geographically closest market. Under what conditions would the EU allow us to source product form Asia/China etc with potentially improved tariff rates and then supply goods into the EU, when their member nations dont have the same , theoretical advantage. There is no way in the world that IF, the UK can agree preferential trade deals with certain nations, that we would then be allowed to be some kind of cut cost gateway outlet into the EU, that simply cant happen. I totally agree with your comments on free movement and this issue needs addressing whether the UK was part of the EU or not, it clearly no longer works. Although, we have now sacrificed our own freedom to move around the EU, which is an own goal. Again, some of the EU policies on agriculture and fishing certainly havent worked to the UK's benefit so there is possible improvement there. However, the risk to our much coveted financial sector is absolutely huge and as probably the largest part of our "invisible" exports this moving across to the EU would take funds from the exchequours purse at a rate not seen in the last 50/60 years and whilst you are clearly right about companies adapting and the strong surviving, the numbers employed in manufacturing, notwithstanding the improvements in mechanisation, are pitiful. Must get back to the freezer, I can feel myself melting !

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:25 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Thanks for giving me permission to post, very noble of you and very humbling for me, thank you.

We are in agreement on some of the aspects of the EU that are not working very well.
Where we are poles apart is the perceived outcome, post Brexit.

The "removing of shackles" that you refer to is also the removing of the "glue" that has allowed us to trade very successfully with the EU over the past 40 years and although this may allow us to trade with other parts of the world, what do you think will happen to trade with our largest and geographically closest market.

Under what conditions would the EU allow us to source product form Asia/China etc with potentially improved tariff rates and then supply goods into the EU, when their member nations dont have the same , theoretical advantage.

There is no way in the world that IF, the UK can agree preferential trade deals with certain nations, that we would then be allowed to be some kind of cut cost gateway outlet into the EU, that simply cant happen.

I totally agree with your comments on free movement and this issue needs addressing whether the UK was part of the EU or not, it clearly no longer works. Although, we have now sacrificed our own freedom to move around the EU, which is an own goal.

Again, some of the EU policies on agriculture and fishing certainly havent worked to the UK's benefit so there is possible improvement there.

However, the risk to our much coveted financial sector is absolutely huge and as probably the largest part of our "invisible" exports this moving across to the EU would take funds from the exchequours purse at a rate not seen in the last 50/60 years and whilst you are clearly right about companies adapting and the strong surviving, the numbers employed in manufacturing, notwithstanding the improvements in mechanisation, are pitiful.

Must get back to the freezer, I can feel myself melting !

News Flash, it's not 1960 anymore!

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:21 am  

PCollinson1990 wrote:

News Flash, it's not 1960 anymore!

What ??

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:49 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

What ??

You bark constantly about Thatcher and manufacturing, you're a stuck record at 75rpm. Open your eyes and see the MODERN world, Labour had their shot and just spiralled into more debt.