Re: US Presidential election 2020 : Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:26 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

Sunni and Shia, not unlike Protestant and Catholic, is a sectarian divide rather than a tribal one.

People are just people, the good and the bad and mostly the mixed, and a lot of things we perceive as being deep-rooted can change and evolve pretty rapidly, on a historical scale.

As i say, start with demolishing all places of worship, it's time that fairy story was brought to an end.

Re: US Presidential election 2020 : Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:14 pm  

How Communist of you.

Re: US Presidential election 2020 : Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:13 am  

"Personally, no - I think they were wrong, but they have to be judged by the context of their time," said Prof Richardson

"Personally, no - I think they were wrong, but they have to be judged by the context of their time," said Prof Richardson

[Mild Rover]

Re: US Presidential election 2020 : Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:16 pm  

IR80 wrote: "Personally, no - I think they were wrong, but they have to be judged by the context of their time," said Prof Richardson I think she’s right. We do have to understand the historical and cultural context that individuals lived in. Elements of own moral and ethical codes will be outdated one day. It’s kind of interesting to try to guess which. However, there are some things that, even making allowances, on a basic human level just feel too wrong and can’t be contextualised away. I get, for example, that economic and political failures and injustices paved the way for totalitarian regimes to seize power across much of Europe in the first half of the 20th Century. However, at some point things spilled over from understandable consequences to some sort of sick collective derangement, that should be remembered as such. Where that point lies and exactly who is this or that side of it is a subjective judgement. Similarly for the slave trade and exploitative colonial racism. Also, while symbols can be important I think there’s a danger of getting bogged down in tokenism and detail, without having achieved enough meaningful change.

IR80 wrote: "Personally, no - I think they were wrong, but they have to be judged by the context of their time," said Prof Richardson I think she’s right. We do have to understand the historical and cultural context that individuals lived in. Elements of own moral and ethical codes will be outdated one day. It’s kind of interesting to try to guess which. However, there are some things that, even making allowances, on a basic human level just feel too wrong and can’t be contextualised away. I get, for example, that economic and political failures and injustices paved the way for totalitarian regimes to seize power across much of Europe in the first half of the 20th Century. However, at some point things spilled over from understandable consequences to some sort of sick collective derangement, that should be remembered as such. Where that point lies and exactly who is this or that side of it is a subjective judgement. Similarly for the slave trade and exploitative colonial racism. Also, while symbols can be important I think there’s a danger of getting bogged down in tokenism and detail, without having achieved enough meaningful change.

Re: US Presidential election 2020 : Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:44 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

I think she’s right. We do have to understand the historical and cultural context that individuals lived in. Elements of own moral and ethical codes will be outdated one day. It’s kind of interesting to try to guess which.

However, there are some things that, even making allowances, on a basic human level just feel too wrong and can’t be contextualised away. I get, for example, that economic and political failures and injustices paved the way for totalitarian regimes to seize power across much of Europe in the first half of the 20th Century. However, at some point things spilled over from understandable consequences to some sort of sick collective derangement, that should be remembered as such. Where that point lies and exactly who is this or that side of it is a subjective judgement. Similarly for the slave trade and exploitative colonial racism.

Also, while symbols can be important I think there’s a danger of getting bogged down in tokenism and detail, without having achieved enough meaningful change.

And what, for you, would "meaningful change" look like, perhaps not depicting Lancastrians by an avatar of less than intelligent persons with a wooly hat and scalf?

It is always thus, to be SELF righteous, you need an inflated sense of SELF. A lot of the imbecilic left indulge with a heightened opinion of themselves, whilst ignoring the base facts. The biggest, most noteable philanthropists made fortunes before finding their self appointed worthiness, and quietly milked the cow in the shadows whilst peddling the whey as Ambrosia, moulding the curd into cheese for themselves.

[Mild Rover]

Re: US Presidential election 2020 : Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:06 pm  

IR80 wrote:

And what, for you, would "meaningful change" look like, perhaps not depicting Lancastrians by an avatar of less than intelligent persons with a wooly hat and scalf?

It is always thus, to be SELF righteous, you need an inflated sense of SELF. A lot of the imbecilic left indulge with a heightened opinion of themselves, whilst ignoring the base facts. The biggest, most noteable philanthropists made fortunes before finding their self appointed worthiness, and quietly milked the cow in the shadows whilst peddling the whey as Ambrosia, moulding the curd into cheese for themselves.

What a splendid post.

I identify with Golden Gordon. I believe Barnstoneworth was intended to be a Yorkshire town. It was filmed in Keighley and Barnoldswick, the latter being in Lancashire from 1974 but in Yorkshire in 1935 when the episode was set. Eight-bloody-One!

Not that I’m never guilty of othering people. See any of my recent posts that include the word gammon.

Re: US Presidential election 2020 : Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:11 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

What a splendid post.

I identify with Golden Gordon. I believe Barnstoneworth was intended to be a Yorkshire town. It was filmed in Keighley and Barnoldswick, the latter being in Lancashire from 1974 but in Yorkshire in 1935 when the episode was set. Eight-bloody-One!

Not that I’m never guilty of othering people. See any of my recent posts that include the word gammon.

I am glad you took my comment with the humour and sarcasm as it was intended. It does seem, in these times where people have time to spend and focus, perhaps focus more than necessary, we have lost our ability to take things at face value.

We have millenials, snowflakes and gammons, I wonder where the egg, chips, pineapple rings, bread and butter and cups of tea are coming from, then we can have a feast!

[Mild Rover]

Re: US Presidential election 2020 : Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:28 pm  

IR80 wrote:

I am glad you took my comment with the humour and sarcasm as it was intended. It does seem, in these times where people have time to spend and focus, perhaps focus more than necessary, we have lost our ability to take things at face value.

We have millenials, snowflakes and gammons, I wonder where the egg, chips, pineapple rings, bread and butter and cups of tea are coming from, then we can have a feast!

I am so suggestible when it comes to food. I want egg and chips tonight now, with tinned pineapple rings for afters. And the joy is, I think we’ve got them all in. #Winning.

Re: US Presidential election 2020 : Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:41 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

I am so suggestible when it comes to food. I want egg and chips tonight now, with tinned pineapple rings for afters. And the joy is, I think we’ve got them all in. #Winning.

make sure you have tinned milk and ice cream with the pineapple rings!

[Mild Rover]

Re: US Presidential election 2020 : Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:54 pm  

IR80 wrote:

make sure you have tinned milk and ice cream with the pineapple rings!

Tinned milk! The ice-cream - neopolitan or raspberry ripple? Doesn’t matter, haven’t got them in and and one of the few things greater than my suggestibility is my aversion to non-essential shopping.