Re: Holmes and MATA’UTIA : Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:36 pm  

easyWire wrote:

Indeed. I was surprised that our players weren't a bit more motivated in front of the new boss, considering a lot of them are up for contract renewals. Maybe it was just a case of them being shell-shocked by a team that gelled as one attacking unit right from the first minute. Either way we didn't have the leaders to claw us back into it. Hill is a great player but too easily rattled IMO to steady the ship. Hughes has been given the captaincy role but seems to lack that passion to drive the players back into it. We need an Edwards or a Farrell type player who won't accept the sort of crap we put on show, because the coach certainly didn't seem able to change the mindset at half time.

That is exactly the issue. There was a place at Wembley at stake which is a massive milestone for a player's career so I doubt motivation was the problem, but there isn't enough character or leadership in the team to turn things round when they are going wrong.

Re: Holmes and MATA’UTIA : Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:50 pm  

EW / SC. I couldn't agree with you more. Good teams have a "coach on the pitch" Sinfield, O'Laughlin, Farrell, Roby etc. the closest we had recently was Monaghan. He ensured that the coach"s message was reinforced and nobody would go against it.
So if we could go and sign one player that shows those qualities who would it be?
Talk of Holmes, Williams and Trueman is great but none of them are in the same bracket as those mentioned above

Re: Holmes and MATA’UTIA : Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:58 pm  

Sam Tomkins.

Re: Holmes and MATA’UTIA : Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:12 pm  

Reminds me of what Wayne Bennett says in his book "Don't Die with the Music in you". A good coach with a bad captain is struggling. A good captain with a bad coach, makes the coach look good.

Tony Smith had Morley as captain 2009 to 2013; Monaghan in 2014; Westwood in 2015; Hill in 2016 to 2017. Interesting to map that against the time when TS was considered the best coach in the league / losing his touch / gone stale

Re: Holmes and MATA’UTIA : Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:32 pm  

Douglas Black wrote:

Sam Tomkins.

An annoyingly accurate answer.

Re: Holmes and MATA’UTIA : Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:27 pm  

Fom what I saw Monaghan was captain in everything but name even when Moz was the captain. so the " Leader" does not always have to be the one wearing the armband.
So Sam Tomkins is unthinkable, Luke Gale at Leeds, Roby at saints. I can't think of many others in SL that could do that role.
You had Smith at Melbourne and Cronk took up that role when he moved to the Roosters.
Who is there that can take the leadership role assuming the Hill and Hughes are possibly not the right people for the role.

Re: Holmes and MATA’UTIA : Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:30 pm  

Deus Dat Incrementum wrote:

EW / SC. I couldn't agree with you more. Good teams have a "coach on the pitch" Sinfield, O'Laugglin, Farrell, Roby etc. the closest we had recently was Monaghan. He ensured that the coach"s message was reinforced and nobody would go against it.
So if we could go and sign one player that shows those qualities who would it be?
Talk of Holmes, Williams and Trueman is great but none of them are in the same bracket as those mentioned above

I don't want our coach's message reinforced

Re: Holmes and MATA’UTIA : Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:25 pm  

Douglas Black wrote:

Sam Tomkins.

It might be tongue in cheek, but I’d have him in a heartbeat. He knows he dropped a bollox not signing for Wire on his return from NZ.
As hard as it might seem, deep down, he is still a Wire fan. He’s seemingly enjoying the S of France on big money with his brother there, so he’s little to gain coming back.

Re: Holmes and MATA’UTIA : Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:37 pm  

rubber duckie wrote:

It might be tongue in cheek, but I’d have him in a heartbeat. He knows he dropped a bollox not signing for Wire on his return from NZ.
As hard as it might seem, deep down, he is still a Wire fan. He’s seemingly enjoying the S of France on big money with his brother there, so he’s little to gain coming back.

He's as much 'still' a Wire fan as Steven Gerrard is still an Everton fan....

Re: Holmes and MATA’UTIA : Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:54 pm  

It wasn't tongue in cheek at all. I don't think there is a Sinfield, Farrell, O'Loughlin type player out there other than Roby maybe. Tomkins is the nearest I could think of.