Re: Duty of care : Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:04 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

Well yeah but what's the alternative? The attacker needs to be able to get his bumpers up and fend in order to protect himself. Getting penalised in possession is also a big game changer.

Leading with the forearm or elbow in possession is still a penalty. McShane got three matches for it last year after he did it to Myler.

Yeah McShane the GRUB

Re: Duty of care : Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:08 pm  

Can’t tell what’s gone on from that photo but a couple of Catalans players (Casty and Kasiano) should’ve been warned about leading with their forearms/elbows after that Warrington play off game.

Re: Duty of care : Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:24 pm  

Don't understand how contact with the head is fine when you have the ball but unacceptable when you don't.

Not complaining about the Grand Final or the picture in question (hastings tackle on fages was fine though ) just think that's a reasonable inconsistency to point out

Re: Duty of care : Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:09 am  

If you lead with the forearm or elbow, dependant on where the contact is it’s a straight red. That to me looks like a fend off where Bullock has moved to avoid and ended up hitting the forearm. Walmsley doesn’t do anything wrong there, play on.

I get what you’re saying but we’re never going to eradicate contact with the head. Removing the fend off removes the offensive players opportunity to do exactly that, fend off defenders to offload or find a gap to squeeze through. Not all props do that, the likes of Flower/Clubb are essentially bartering rams with minimal offloads who don’t need to fend off.

Re: Duty of care : Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:20 am  

warrior1872 wrote:

Not with a forearm you can't,ask Kelvin Skerrett

show me the clip of the above picture instead of a still taken and I may change my mind

Re: Duty of care : Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:22 am  

100% Warrior wrote:

If you lead with the forearm or elbow, dependant on where the contact is it’s a straight red. That to me looks like a fend off where Bullock has moved to avoid and ended up hitting the forearm. Walmsley doesn’t do anything wrong there, play on.

I get what you’re saying but we’re never going to eradicate contact with the head. Removing the fend off removes the offensive players opportunity to do exactly that, fend off defenders to offload or find a gap to squeeze through. Not all props do that, the likes of Flower/Clubb are essentially bartering rams with minimal offloads who don’t need to fend off.

and make minimal yards also, maybe they should fend

Re: Duty of care : Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:59 am  

Non issue, hand off to the face is totally normal and happens in every game. Forearm/elbow is different; Liam Watts got sent off for doing that against Mickey Mac a few years back.

Re: Duty of care : Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:07 am  

Pieman wrote:

show me the clip of the above picture instead of a still taken and I may change my mind

Why would i have that evidence,maybe if you watched the game back again you might see it

Re: Duty of care : Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:34 pm  

I think the OP makes a valid point, but the photo is not the best illustration of it. I've long complained that the ball-carrier is given the benefit of the doubt far too much; elbows and forearms to the face are not uncommon (often with the ball-carrying arm, not the 'free' arm), moving off the mark, playing the ball any old how at any old angle, etc etc.

A fair deal for defenders!

Re: Duty of care : Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:38 pm  

moto748 wrote:

I think the OP makes a valid point, but the photo is not the best illustration of it. I've long complained that the ball-carrier is given the benefit of the doubt far too much; elbows and forearms to the face are not uncommon (often with the ball-carrying arm, not the 'free' arm), moving off the mark, playing the ball any old how at any old angle, etc etc.

A fair deal for defenders!

Consider:

- the ball carrier is the one with 3 or so lumps of muscle all trying to hit him as hard as they can
- the ball carrier has the extra disadvantage of having a ball to catch, keep hold of, and possibly try to offload
- the ball carrier sometimes doesn't get chance to brace until the last second, as he can't necessarily track where all 13 defenders are whilst trying to catch a ball. The defenders always know where the ball carrier is so have more time to get their contact right.
- defenders make contact with the head in many tackles, not all of them are penalised (and rightly so) if the contact is incidental and not too big of an impact
- a penalty against the defence is a lot bigger than a penalty against the attack

I think it's absolutely right that we afford the ball carrier more protection. If we started making them run with their arms by their sides they would get mullered.