Re: Featherstone game : Mon May 23, 2011 4:22 pm  

Geoggy wrote:

Super League was brought in to improve international standards so we could beat the Aussies.

Worked a treat hasn't it?

I don't think super league was invented to help us best the convicts at international level, I think it was brought in to improve the game as a whole from the sky money which it has and that can't be in doubt.

I think the franchise system and salary cap are put in place to help the clubs but also help develop our youth system which in turn helps us at international level as we have more and more young lads coming thru over the last 3yrs of the franchise system than probably in the 5yrs before.

As we are only just ending the first franchise phase which was 3yrs ago it's to early yet to see if it has helped the international game as it was always going to take time as the kids need to come thru the system. I think in the next two years we will see just how much the cap and franchise system has helped clubs bring young players thru and in turn if it's helped England.

The have been some very good young players like Sam Tomkins, Joel Tomkins, charnley, mossop, foster, wheeler, eastmond, lomax, clough, Gaskell, Tom briscoe, mcshane, jones bishop, Watkins, whitehead etc that have IMO benifited from the franchise and salary cap and they could provide England with a very very good international team that can compete with the Aussies.

Re: Featherstone game : Mon May 23, 2011 4:40 pm  

gingdong wrote:

Not the point is it you are allowed 5 and us 1 in the same comp, howz that work then

If I remember correctly, which I don't always do but I try to, the limit for the Championship was set lower because of the financial problems of many Championship clubs. Purchasing overseas players can be expensive and hasn't helped in the leagues where gates are lower, TV money lower and revenue streams more limited. The allowance for Superleague clubs has decreased in number each season with five the present maximum, although there are still a number of exempt players (like Meli at Saints) floating around. Once they retire or move on then five will be the maximum (unless the number reduces further). Superleague clubs are in a position financially to pay for a higher number of overseas players due to higher gates, TV money and more options on revenue streams. I'm sure the ideal, though, is for fewer overseas players than at present with more locally grown players getting first team spots instead. That is a positive offshoot of the cap, regardless of league.

Re: Featherstone game : Mon May 23, 2011 4:45 pm  

St pete wrote:

I don't think super league was invented to help us best the convicts at international level, I think it was brought in to improve the game as a whole from the sky money which it has and that can't be in doubt.

I think the franchise system and salary cap are put in place to help the clubs but also help develop our youth system which in turn helps us at international level as we have more and more young lads coming thru over the last 3yrs of the franchise system than probably in the 5yrs before.

As we are only just ending the first franchise phase which was 3yrs ago it's to early yet to see if it has helped the international game as it was always going to take time as the kids need to come thru the system. I think in the next two years we will see just how much the cap and franchise system has helped clubs bring young players thru and in turn if it's helped England.

The have been some very good young players like Sam Tomkins, Joel Tomkins, charnley, mossop, foster, wheeler, eastmond, lomax, clough, Gaskell, Tom briscoe, mcshane, jones bishop, Watkins, whitehead etc that have IMO benifited from the franchise and salary cap and they could provide England with a very very good international team that can compete with the Aussies.

It was one of the selling points as I recall.

As we can see it has produced a decent domestic competition but at what price?

-We are no nearer internationally

-The gap between Super league and the rest grows annually

-Expansion has been at the opportunity cost of not nurturing the heartlands, when it could and should have been both

- We have a league with a lot of "journeymen" Aussies / Kiwis which can only stunt the growth of player development (obvious exceptions, but who can say that list would not have been much longer had we fostered Fev, Cumbria etc etc ???)

Re: Featherstone game : Mon May 23, 2011 4:53 pm  

Geoggy I honestly think that they was looking more at getting the game main stream when they made super league and nothing at all to do with the international game. It brough a wider audience, more money and over all it brought us a better club game. That can't be doubted.

With the franchise concept and salary cap it's got clubs back on track looking at bringing youth into the first team which it has. The last 3yrs which was the first franchise phase has seen more and more young players get a chance. That's why IMO if this concept works and we continue to produce the Tomkins, eastmonds, briscoes etc then I'm sure in 2/3 years we will see the benefit of it.

Re: Featherstone game : Mon May 23, 2011 7:15 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

If I remember correctly, which I don't always do but I try to, the limit for the Championship was set lower because of the financial problems of many Championship clubs. Purchasing overseas players can be expensive and hasn't helped in the leagues where gates are lower, TV money lower and revenue streams more limited. The allowance for Superleague clubs has decreased in number each season with five the present maximum, although there are still a number of exempt players (like Meli at Saints) floating around. Once they retire or move on then five will be the maximum (unless the number reduces further). Superleague clubs are in a position financially to pay for a higher number of overseas players due to higher gates, TV money and more options on revenue streams. I'm sure the ideal, though, is for fewer overseas players than at present with more locally grown players getting first team spots instead. That is a positive offshoot of the cap, regardless of league.

The Championship has a lower O/S because the Championship clubs themselves voted for it. Championship 1 clubs are allowed 2 O/S players, by the way. That, again, is because the Championship 1 clubs voted for it. That is the way that they wanted it.

Re: Featherstone game : Mon May 23, 2011 7:19 pm  

Pepe wrote:

The Championship has a lower O/S because the Championship clubs themselves voted for it. Championship 1 clubs are allowed 2 O/S players, by the way. That, again, is because the Championship 1 clubs voted for it. That is the way that they wanted it.

Ah, I see. Well, I did say that I might not be remembering correctly! I just have a memory that the decision had something to do with financial viability.

Re: Featherstone game : Mon May 23, 2011 7:36 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Ah, I see. Well, I did say that I might not be remembering correctly! I just have a memory that the decision had something to do with financial viability.

Financial viability would be an unlikely reason for the O/S quota levels below Super League, given that Championship 1 clubs are allowed more O/S players than the Championship.

Re: Featherstone game : Mon May 23, 2011 7:38 pm  

Pepe wrote:

Financial viability would be an unlikely reason for the O/S quota levels below Super League, given that Championship 1 clubs are allowed more O/S players than the Championship.

Indeed. But I didn't know anything at all about the Championship One quota levels, was only talking about the Championship quota levels, smart a*se.

The financial viability was probably to do with contracts for fulltime players, now that I have reflected upon it further.

Re: Featherstone game : Mon May 23, 2011 7:54 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Indeed. But I didn't know anything at all about the Championship One quota levels, was only talking about the Championship quota levels, smart a*se.

I wasn’t trying to be a smart booty. I was just trying to tell you why the O/S quotas below SL are at the level they are. Whether, or not, you were simply talking about the Championship, makes no odds here. Both the leagues have O/S quotas based on what the clubs in those leagues want it to be, and not necessarily due to financial viability.

SaintsFan wrote:

The financial viability was probably to do with contracts for fulltime players, now that I have reflected upon it further.

There aren’t that many full-time players, if any, in the lower leagues anymore. You just get the odd one or two players being paid for doing community work, rather than have a day job, so I can’t see why that would affect the O/S quotas for the Championship?

Not being a smart booty here either. The reason why the Salary Cap was lowered from £400k to £300k was probably a financial viability issue though. Perhaps that what you vaguely remember?

Re: Featherstone game : Mon May 23, 2011 7:59 pm  

Pepe wrote:

There aren’t that many full-time players, if any, in the lower leagues anymore. You just get the odd one or two players being paid for doing community work, rather than have a day job, so I can’t see why that would affect the O/S quotas for the Championship?

I'm not saying it affected the overseas quota, just that the matter of fulltime players might have been what I was thinking of with regard to the financial issue that I remember. In fact I'm becoming convinced that it was. Following on from a couple of Championship teams getting into financial bother in recent times I think the RFL wanted to promote the idea of clubs living within their means, creating stability and good businesses, rather than trying to punch above their financial weight. And yes, that might have been around the time that the salary cap was reduced. It might have been the reason why it was reduced. That I don't know. But I do think I've conflated a few subjects and managed to confuse myself, which is nothing new!